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Version 0.4.4 Focus Thread: Run Game
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jdavidbakr
Version 0.4.4 Focus Thread: Run Game
by jdavidbakr (Site Admin) @ 7/16/2018 7:41 pm
I've decided to make the focus of 0.4.4 the run game for one main reason: I think the run game can be significantly improved with less effort than zone coverage, and thereby hopefully knocking out 0.4.4 relatively quickly compared to 0.4.3. After that we can return to the passing game and start working out some of the issues that 0.4.4 still has, starting with zone coverage.

So, what I'd like this thread to be about specifically are comments/film study about what needs to be improved or is broken with the run game. This can be as generic as missed tackles being too high - which may just be a matter of it counting missed tackles when really the defender had no realistic chance of making the tackle in the first place, but did get a hand on the runner - to specific logic errors in blocking, running, or pursuit.

I'm looking forward to working with you all on this next iteration! Thank you all so much for your continued input!
Liked by Ragnulf-le-maudit, raymattison21
setherick
Re: Version 0.4.4 Focus Thread: Run Game
by setherick @ 7/16/2018 7:56 pm
Short answer: You can basically shut down any running play by blitzing at least two.

I'm almost certain that in 0.4.3, you can run a Blitz 2, Pass Key defense and shut down 90% of all offenses.
Liked by CrazyRazor, raymattison21
jdavidbakr
Re: Version 0.4.4 Focus Thread: Run Game
by jdavidbakr (Site Admin) @ 7/16/2018 8:01 pm
setherick wrote:
Short answer: You can basically shut down any running play by blitzing at least two.

I'm almost certain that in 0.4.3, you can run a Blitz 2, Pass Key defense and shut down 90% of all offenses.

What do you believe needs to be done to fix it? What is happening in the engine that is making that behave that way, and what should change to make it not so?
Liked by raymattison21
setherick
Re: Version 0.4.4 Focus Thread: Run Game
by setherick @ 7/16/2018 8:04 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
setherick wrote:
Short answer: You can basically shut down any running play by blitzing at least two.

I'm almost certain that in 0.4.3, you can run a Blitz 2, Pass Key defense and shut down 90% of all offenses.

What do you believe needs to be done to fix it? What is happening in the engine that is making that behave that way, and what should change to make it not so?

1) Most outside runs are too slow to develop, which allows blitzing defenders time to track.
2) Most outside runs run too far outside the tackle before turning upfield.
3) Most inside runs run to the gap. Most blitzes attack the gap.
4) Tackles don't/can't seal an edge. Rarely, you can get that elite 100 AC, 100 ST tackle that will occasionally push his man 5 yards down field. Most of the time, the tackle and the DL stand up and the tackle lets the DL get past when the RB gets close. A 100 Run Def RDE can usually handle most of the weak side off tackle runs.
5) Guards don't get to the second level fast enough on non-blitz plays.
6) Most blocking is hit and engage, instead of edge block, release, and reengage next defender. (Or seal which was covered above.)

Those are a few notes that I have. I'm sure I can come up with more.

UPDATE - Thought of more.

7) Draws don't work because the DL and LBs key the RB before he gets the ball.
8) No misdirection.
9) No trap blocking.

UPDATE 2 - Thought of more.

10) Blitzers don't over run the play.
11) Tackles don't push blitzers out of the play to create new holes. (Or seal depending on the play.)

These are just blocking / defensive issues I've seen. There are more problems with running the ball. Like the fact that the physics is all kinds of wrong. Fast, big backs in MFN are awful because they are too slow to get moving and too easily tackled.
Last edited 7/17/2018 1:13 am
Liked by raymattison21, Ragnulf-le-maudit
lellow2011
Re: Version 0.4.4 Focus Thread: Run Game
by lellow2011 @ 7/16/2018 11:50 pm
200 lbs WRs shouldn't be tearing through tackles while that 220 lbs HB with the same stats minus the 3-4 points of speed gets stone walled.
Liked by CrazyRazor, Beercloud, raymattison21and 2 others
setherick
Re: Version 0.4.4 Focus Thread: Run Game
by setherick @ 7/16/2018 11:52 pm
200 pound running backs should be getting injured period. I think it's slightly absurd the things I can do to make my RBs better by playing them at positions OTHER THAN RB.
Liked by raymattison21, Ragnulf-le-maudit, Infinity on Trial
setherick
Re: Version 0.4.4 Focus Thread: Run Game
by setherick @ 7/17/2018 6:42 am
I think this article is a great example of what's wrong with RB physics in the game when it comes to speed: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/04/sports/football/nfl-speed-leonard-fournette.html

The Fournette play actually shows most of the problems with run blocking in MFN as well. In MFN, the only engagement OL have with DL is up-and-down the field. In the Fournette play, the TE seals the edge, the LT and LG take the man on their right, the C takes the RG's man, the FB takes the CB and the RG trap blocks the LB. That gives Fournette the huge hole to run through.

In MFN, the FB on this play would run straight ahead and block the same player that C was blocking. The TE would run around like a moron. The LT would push on the DE, but probably not go anywhere. And the RG would pull and get lost. (Note there is a big difference here between pulling and trapping. If you watch the RG on this play, he hides behind the OL until the LB makes a move inside and then the RG springs the trap. It's a textbook trap.) And the play would gain 10 yards ecause the defense is running a read-react defense (which in MFN terms means the GL 3 Deep Zone).
Last edited 7/17/2018 3:37 pm
Liked by Beercloud, raymattison21, Ragnulf-le-maudit
Ragnulf-le-maudit
Re: Version 0.4.4 Focus Thread: Run Game
by Ragnulf-le-maudit @ 7/19/2018 8:59 am
It looks like the rb doesn't really reads the blocks. A lot of time, he runs through the blocker instead of running in the big hole inside or outside of the block, thus allowing the defender to make the tackle. It happens a lot on off-tackle runs.
Liked by Beercloud, raymattison21
Beercloud
Re: Version 0.4.4 Focus Thread: Run Game
by Beercloud @ 7/19/2018 5:36 pm
i always thought that speed should be more important to guards and centers than it is to tackles. To me tackles are an accel / agility position where as guards and centers are a speed, strength and agility positions.

Which leads me to agility. I'm thinking we could use an agility rating to go along with speed-strength-accel-intel-displ. Agility is highly important in say, a west coast offense and not as important in a power offense. It could open up more variety in decision making.
Liked by hchoudhry17, raymattison21
setherick
Re: Version 0.4.4 Focus Thread: Run Game
by setherick @ 7/21/2018 3:18 pm
Let's not forget the absurd number of fumbles.
Liked by Infinity on Trial, hchoudhry17
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