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Main - General MFN Discussion

Re: Is negative familiarity still broken?

By setherick
11/07/2022 3:10 pm
CrazySexyBeast wrote:
I think it is important to note defensive plays effected by the negative play familiarity bug are not broken.
They are just bugged. It's (an) engine issue, not a broken play issue.

Someone mentioned flat zone 4.6 data...
well, it wasn't "broken" in 4.5. Just very effective :)
4.5 did not have the negative defensive play familiarity bug.

So, the question regarding the deflection about the real issue - the removal of the flat zone is:
Did the negative play familiarity bug "break" an already effective play in 4.6?


It's important to note the community was "Look! Squirrel" -ed when JDB removed the flat zone and fb dive when the negative play bug was originally addressed in my fix the engine or i quit post. I said as much at the time.

That's enough from me today.


The FZ was equally broken in 4.5. The difference was if you spammed it with the hitch it would eventually give up big plays. Let me find the thread.

Here: https://norig.myfootballnow.com/community/3/6525?page=1#40120
Last edited at 11/07/2022 3:11 pm

Re: Is negative familiarity still broken?

By Blondie1977
11/08/2022 10:03 am
Bruno77 wrote:
From what I've seen Nickel 335 Cover 2 is godawful against the run and even worse against flares/**** like that.


Smirt and I have mentioned this several times in XFL forums. 3-3-5 Cover 2 was the key to stopped flares in 4.5, but it is horrible in 4.6. You're better off running nickel blitzes against 113 than 3-3-5 Cover 2.

Re: Is negative familiarity still broken?

By Blondie1977
11/08/2022 10:04 am
setherick wrote:
CrazySexyBeast wrote:
I think it is important to note defensive plays effected by the negative play familiarity bug are not broken.
They are just bugged. It's (an) engine issue, not a broken play issue.

Someone mentioned flat zone 4.6 data...
well, it wasn't "broken" in 4.5. Just very effective :)
4.5 did not have the negative defensive play familiarity bug.

So, the question regarding the deflection about the real issue - the removal of the flat zone is:
Did the negative play familiarity bug "break" an already effective play in 4.6?


It's important to note the community was "Look! Squirrel" -ed when JDB removed the flat zone and fb dive when the negative play bug was originally addressed in my fix the engine or i quit post. I said as much at the time.

That's enough from me today.


The FZ was equally broken in 4.5. The difference was if you spammed it with the hitch it would eventually give up big plays. Let me find the thread.

Here: https://norig.myfootballnow.com/community/3/6525?page=1#40120


That's exactly right and a strategy owners like Smirt and Holly took full advantage of.

Re: Is negative familiarity still broken?

By setherick
11/08/2022 10:22 am
Blondie1977 wrote:
Bruno77 wrote:
From what I've seen Nickel 335 Cover 2 is godawful against the run and even worse against flares/**** like that.


Smirt and I have mentioned this several times in XFL forums. 3-3-5 Cover 2 was the key to stopped flares in 4.5, but it is horrible in 4.6. You're better off running nickel blitzes against 113 than 3-3-5 Cover 2.


The 3-3-5 is also destroyed by the run to the tune of a median of 8 yards per carry or something silly like that. Strong do not recommend unless on long passing downs.

Re: Is negative familiarity still broken?

By Blondie1977
11/08/2022 11:57 am
setherick wrote:
Blondie1977 wrote:
Bruno77 wrote:
From what I've seen Nickel 335 Cover 2 is godawful against the run and even worse against flares/**** like that.


Smirt and I have mentioned this several times in XFL forums. 3-3-5 Cover 2 was the key to stopped flares in 4.5, but it is horrible in 4.6. You're better off running nickel blitzes against 113 than 3-3-5 Cover 2.


The 3-3-5 is also destroyed by the run to the tune of a median of 8 yards per carry or something silly like that. Strong do not recommend unless on long passing downs.


Very good point

Re: Is negative familiarity still broken?

By Smirt211
11/09/2022 5:05 am
Blondie1977 wrote:
Bruno77 wrote:
From what I've seen Nickel 335 Cover 2 is godawful against the run and even worse against flares/**** like that.


Smirt and I have mentioned this several times in XFL forums. 3-3-5 Cover 2 was the key to stopped flares in 4.5, but it is horrible in 4.6. You're better off running nickel blitzes against 113 than 3-3-5 Cover 2.


You could probably think of MFN as an adaptable living organism. As another style rose to the surface and became more widespread, the effectiveness of the play in question got shifted to lose its bite. I was fine with it for years and years until recently. There could be that, JDB tweaking behind the scenes or the parachuting in of a multitude of aggressive players like me whom go after a focal point and began running hard at it. All 3 factors could be at play.

Re: Is negative familiarity still broken?

By raymattison21
11/09/2022 7:12 am
Smirt211 wrote:
Blondie1977 wrote:
Bruno77 wrote:
From what I've seen Nickel 335 Cover 2 is godawful against the run and even worse against flares/**** like that.


Smirt and I have mentioned this several times in XFL forums. 3-3-5 Cover 2 was the key to stopped flares in 4.5, but it is horrible in 4.6. You're better off running nickel blitzes against 113 than 3-3-5 Cover 2.


You could probably think of MFN as an adaptable living organism. As another style rose to the surface and became more widespread, the effectiveness of the play in question got shifted to lose its bite. I was fine with it for years and years until recently. There could be that, JDB tweaking behind the scenes or the parachuting in of a multitude of aggressive players like me whom go after a focal point and began running hard at it. All 3 factors could be at play.


Smirt is dead on the and in the nfl when rules are tweaked new approaches arise. The value of recieving and coverage abilitlies began this evolution. As 4.3 til now those ratings have beome much more valueable.

You see it with the wr1 targets falling off the map in 4.3 all the way to the dump off city days of 4.5. Alot of that 4.5 shift was really about looking at those flats. That particular area...especially on medium and long passes.

One could use a bit of speed whether it be raw or made by using a WR slotted at RB and swing it out there 7-11 yards deep for an almost automatic completion, even with little receiving skills.

So, in generalization but more specifically that was cut off per say. Now (4.6) with luck a 70 speed 100 man bump LB can keep up sometimes....well at least enough not to have the QB attempt a target.

Some perhaps unwanted results you'll see are those pitches to the RB (behind the LoS) that throws the screen wildly while your back tracks down that erratic pitch for sometimes a monster loss.



Re: Is negative familiarity still broken?

By Smirt211
11/09/2022 7:28 am
Some perhaps unwanted results you'll see are those pitches to the RB (behind the LoS) that throws the screen wildly while your back tracks down that erratic pitch for sometimes a monster loss.


seth and Infinity had me hone in on it, but...

100 route and 100 avoidance mitigates the earthquake shake of the game viewer. 100 ball carry will have the RB matrix (like the movie) all over the field in loops to gain yardage.

When I say 100 I mean aim for 100 or close to it.
Last edited at 11/09/2022 7:28 am

Re: Is negative familiarity still broken?

By setherick
11/09/2022 3:49 pm
Smirt211 wrote:
Some perhaps unwanted results you'll see are those pitches to the RB (behind the LoS) that throws the screen wildly while your back tracks down that erratic pitch for sometimes a monster loss.


seth and Infinity had me hone in on it, but...

100 route and 100 avoidance mitigates the earthquake shake of the game viewer. 100 ball carry will have the RB matrix (like the movie) all over the field in loops to gain yardage.

When I say 100 I mean aim for 100 or close to it.


I'm willing to bet that most owners think that having a receiver with 100 route is only good for slants, etc., which is the only time it's going to get rolled downfield.

But the best reason to have a WR with 100 route is so they don't dance forever at the LOS. The stutter step code is based on the receiver's route with the effectiveness directly relational to the receiver's route skill and duration that the receiver stutters indirectly relational to the skill. So a player with 100 route stutters for a shorter period of time and is more effective doing it. While a player with low route, dances with the CB for a few seconds until the QB drills in with the ball.