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Re: Training Camp

By setherick
7/15/2017 11:41 pm
First TC with the draft obfuscation system, so I'm going to track my players pre and post camp.

I'm not going to take the time to explain the draft weights versus game day weights I'm using right now. Basically, I'm using a draft day set of weights to get an idea what a player's "floor" is. And then I'm using the floor to help guide my picks.

Pre Camp

Player - Draft Weights - Game Day Weights - Vol - Scouted?

1-27 SS J Spires - 74/93 - 72/91 - 66 - Scouted
2-26 RB J Marshall - 79/97 - 75/93 - 48 - Not Scouted
3-27 FS L Ardito - 73/84 - 72/83 - 84 - Scouted
4-26 RB J Brown - 70/92 - 64/86 - 10 - Scouted
4-29 FS J McQueen - 61/75 - 58/72 - 38 - Not Scouted
5-27 MLB V Perry - 63/73 - 59/69 - 16 - Not Scouted
7-27 RB K Hoover - 51/78 - 49/76 - 36 - Not Scouted
UDFA LB R McGlone - 30/69 - 24/63 - 2 - Not Scouted

Post Camp

Player - Draft Floor/Median/Ceiling (Game day weights) - Post-TC Game Day Weights - Camp +/-

1-27 DB J Spires - 72/82/91 - 48/82 - +2 - Met expectations
2-26 RB J Marshall - 75/84/93 - 39/74 - -2 - Missed expectations (bust)
3-27 DB L Ardito - 72/78/83 - 44/78 - -3 - Met expectations
4-26 RB J Brown - 64/75/86 - 38/67 - 0 - Missed expectations
4-29 DB J McQueen - 58/65/72 - 46/71 - -1 - Exceeded expectations
5-27 MLB V Perry - 59/64/69 - 38/69 - -1 - Exceeded expectations
7-27 RB K Hoover - 49/63/76 - 47/69 - 0 - Exceeded expectations
UDFA LB R McGlone - 24/43/63 - 36/57 - 0 - Exceeded expectations

In general, I'm really happy with how my camp turned out. Using the draft median based on my game day weights as a guide, 6 of the 8 rookies met or exceeded expectations. And Perry somehow exceeded his draft day ceiling even tho he went -1 in camp (I assume rounding error on that that). Marshall was a bust and Brown failed to meet expectations, but they were both worth being picked at the time.

Notes

I didn't see a big difference in this draft and drafts without obfuscation.

There were 17 players with an overall >90 taken with all of the non-kickers being taken in rounds 1 or 2. There were an additional 21 players with an overall between 90-80 taken with all of the non-kickers being taken in rounds 1 or 2.

The biggest steal was DE Tim Reed who was taken 5-9, and he may break 80 in year 2.

It looks like the obfuscation made owners look at the draft harder because it was hard to find overlooked players after round 2.
Last edited at 7/17/2017 6:14 am

Re: Training Camp

By raymattison21
7/17/2017 6:25 am
T. Reed would have went way early , but he was the only one and there was a bunch of early busts......way more than any normal draft

Re: Training Camp

By kicker10bog
7/17/2017 8:15 am
you had a much better draft and training camp than I did.

Re: Training Camp

By oukjweather
7/17/2017 12:54 pm
Another draft in the books and still can't seem to catch a break here in KC. This draft might just sink us for a while. While DE T Reed was certainly a wonderful find, RT K Riley at 2.9 more than makes up for it. Thinking the best play is to cut him this season and take the 10mil cap hit next season. Not what you want to see during the middle of a roster rebuild. I think if the raw numbers on speed and strength were available for most players which would be measured at the combine or any college pro day, this would be a better deal. Who selects a player with a strength of 29 on the Oline?

As for the feature being tested here. I think the degree of obfuscation should vary based on position. As far as I can recall, most offensive lineman selected in the first part of the draft are playable. Maybe they don't end up being career impact starters, but they are good enough to play a few downs as a backup. However, seeing a QB, RB or WR getting selected at any point in the draft and not playing a down does happen. I think those skill type positions require intangibles of how they will perform at the next level that are hard to measure. Those also tend to be the type of players you see getting selected late that can blossom into great players. Which I'm pretty sure is the intended goal. So seeing more question marks associated with skill type positions makes sense to me. Within the last 7 years, I think we can all point to skill position type players drafted within the first 2 rounds who didn't amount to much, some not even playing a down. Others that were thought to be great, were not necessarily the next Tom Brady or Adrian Peterson, but still played in plenty of games.

Re: Training Camp

By raymattison21
7/17/2017 1:12 pm
oukjweather wrote:
Another draft in the books and still can't seem to catch a break here in KC. This draft might just sink us for a while. While DE T Reed was certainly a wonderful find, RT K Riley at 2.9 more than makes up for it. Thinking the best play is to cut him this season and take the 10mil cap hit next season. Not what you want to see during the middle of a roster rebuild. I think if the raw numbers on speed and strength were available for most players which would be measured at the combine or any college pro day, this would be a better deal. Who selects a player with a strength of 29 on the Oline?

As for the feature being tested here. I think the degree of obfuscation should vary based on position. As far as I can recall, most offensive lineman selected in the first part of the draft are playable. Maybe they don't end up being career impact starters, but they are good enough to play a few downs as a backup. However, seeing a QB, RB or WR getting selected at any point in the draft and not playing a down does happen. I think those skill type positions require intangibles of how they will perform at the next level that are hard to measure. Those also tend to be the type of players you see getting selected late that can blossom into great players. Which I'm pretty sure is the intended goal. So seeing more question marks associated with skill type positions makes sense to me. Within the last 7 years, I think we can all point to skill position type players drafted within the first 2 rounds who didn't amount to much, some not even playing a down. Others that were thought to be great, were not necessarily the next Tom Brady or Adrian Peterson, but still played in plenty of games.



If a 300 pound player benched 225 pounds 50 times at the combine. One might assume he had 100 Strength.

Following that same line of thinking one might assume 29 strength would be 15 reps. That is a weak oline man. Most fall into the range of 22 to 32 reps or 44 to 64 strength .

Either way that is not the case here. The problem is that strength is too much of a factor based off the scale of 0- 100. At least what is effective in order to execute successfully . 64 strength is in the sub par range not ideal or enough at all.

Like I said . J.Allen a DE DT benched 225 only 14 times. He had no problems being successful

Re: Training Camp

By WarEagle
7/17/2017 1:18 pm
oukjweather wrote:
Within the last 7 years, I think we can all point to skill position type players drafted within the first 2 rounds who didn't amount to much, some not even playing a down. Others that were thought to be great, were not necessarily the next Tom Brady or Adrian Peterson, but still played in plenty of games.


I can think of plenty of players who weren't as good as people thought and therefore didn't play much.

But, I can't think of a single player who was expected to be fast and ended up not playing because he wasn't (or strong, etc.).

I'm also having a hard time trying to think of anyone drafted with every measurable being unknown.
Last edited at 7/17/2017 1:20 pm