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212 and 122 Long Passes

By setherick
8/25/2018 10:06 am
By the way, I haven't completely tested this, but I'm pretty sure I know why Ray's 212 long pass game and the 122 long pass game of 0.4.0-0.4.2 were such successful exploits, and I'm pretty sure the exploit still exists in 0.4.3.

It all has to do with safety position.

Look at the 212 SE Post:



Now look at every cover 2.



The WR in the 212 and 122 plays travel outside of the SS and FS zones so the safeties never will come over to cover. In the 212 SE Post, the WR then cuts away from the safety zone on either side of the field, leaving the WR in one-on-one coverage. Since WRs have always had the advantage over DBs, and especially have the advantage now in 0.4.3 even with the QB nerfs, this means the WR should win more than half of these battles.

Long story short, if Cover 2 worked, it would have completely negated this exploit in the first effing place and we wouldn't have had to have all these nerfs.

Re: 212 and 122 Long Passes

By Beercloud
8/25/2018 11:49 am
That play is a natural way to attack a cover two.

Cover 2 has a weakness deep down the sidelines or down the middle. But not both at the same time. Even good CB's will usually have a hard time winning a one-on-one battle with a good WR more than 20 yds down the field. Which is where safeties and attempting to change the WR's route comes into play.

That being said I'd like to see the bump n run being more effective if the CBs and LBs have superior strength and agility over the player they are covering as far as slowing down and altering a receivers routes. Although LBs mostly bump n release.

But then to be fair the QB is going to need another rating called "read" to show his ability to both identify who his coverage is and how well he throws to a receivers adjusted route. And now you need an additional rating for the receivers called "route adjustment". How well will he adjust and does he have the agility and determination to adjust. Oh that word "determination" that is all important in football. The point when a player gives up on his route, block, coverage, pass rush etc..... And of course an "agility" rating.



Here's some good info on coverages.
http://smartfootball.com/passing/attacking-coverages-in-the-passing-game#sthash.EkQbNh0d.dpbs

Re: 212 and 122 Long Passes

By setherick
8/25/2018 11:58 am
Beercloud wrote:
That play is a natural way to attack a cover two.


Yes, sending two corner and a post route on any play is a good way to attack a cover 2. That wasn't the point.

My point was that programmatically, all outside routes that go outside the zone will beat the safety because the safety won't even see the play. It's the difference between smart football and exploiting bad code.

Re: 212 and 122 Long Passes

By Infinity on Trial
8/25/2018 12:22 pm
In today's NFL, Cover 2 is Tampa 2, designed to allow the CBs to get physical at the LOS, knowing they can't get beat deep with safety help. The safeties should be positioned to never allow a flag/fade/streak. You'll often see the CB in trail technique, taking away back-shoulder throws and short routes that break to the sideline, while the OLB takes away the slant. You want your CB to maintain outside leverage, so he can keep the WR in his sight while looking at the QB. The MLB takes anything vertical between the hashmarks. If you have a MLB capable of covering a TE, it's the perfect call against the SE Post. Except, like most plays in this game, it isn't designed well and zone doesn't work at all.

The classic Cover 2 beater is twin inside verticals. Levels concepts also work.

Re: 212 and 122 Long Passes

By Infinity on Trial
8/25/2018 12:39 pm
Here's a better Cover 2 breakdown: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2039934-nfl-101-introducing-the-basics-of-cover-2

Re: 212 and 122 Long Passes

By setherick
8/25/2018 12:45 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
Except, plays in this game aren't designed well and don't work at all as designed.


Fixed that for you.

Re: 212 and 122 Long Passes

By Infinity on Trial
8/25/2018 12:50 pm
setherick wrote:
Infinity on Trial wrote:
Except, plays in this game aren't designed well and don't work at all as designed.


Fixed that for you.


At least you're limited to the plays in your HC's playbook, and he can never learn another play and you can't use a play from your coordinators. But hey, we have roster leagues now.

Re: 212 and 122 Long Passes

By setherick
8/25/2018 12:56 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
setherick wrote:
Infinity on Trial wrote:
Except, plays in this game aren't designed well and don't work at all as designed.


Fixed that for you.


At least you're limited to the plays in your HC's playbook, and he can never learn another play and you can't use a play from your coordinators. But hey, we have roster leagues now.


Hey, at least some of the plays work after they completely break down so you can continue to get yardage. Looking at you 113 Posts. Most of the plays only work after the receiver finishes running his designed route and starts free running. Unless of course the defense tries to B&R and then EVERY play works.

Re: 212 and 122 Long Passes

By setherick
8/25/2018 1:08 pm
Of course, it would help if the QB set the pocket so he could actually use his FOV skill.