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Version 2.6.33

By GrandadB
5/19/2021 8:05 am
Awful, further away from NFL simulation. Sacks and picks are way out of line, passing game has been neutered.

Re: Version 2.6.33

By raymattison21
5/19/2021 11:24 am
It’s all in the long pass section. We had 7 interceptions and 22 sacks. But we didn’t throw any long passes. Even defensively we had some defenders get to 12 sacks and nobody picked off more than a few passes.

Every code change the effective plays change but for me the this version I am still trying to break it. Find those money plays! Maybe this is as good as it gets but all I have done is take out plays that don’t work. To me figuring out how to get something going through out code changes is the best part. But this version is the hardest to date for sure.

Re: Version 2.6.33

By GrandadB
5/19/2021 1:08 pm
Stat & play review from first pre-season game, Tenn 15, Dallas 3 no TDs scored in game.

Dallas Passing Results:
Short Passes PA FB Flat : 5 times for -1.1 FL Hitch 5 - -0.7 (best pass play in current game engine version 0.4.5 ) WR Quick Out 4/-1.4 HB Flare short 4/-2.5 (thats ridiculous)
Hard Slants 2/0, HB Curls 1/0, Skinny Posts 1/0. Not one short pass play had a positive avg.

Medium Passes HB Release Mid 5/-2.0, HB Flare 4/5 (finally a positive avg!), WR Corner TE Middle 3/-5.5 (wow), FB In 2/0, WR Deep 1/0

Long Passes 113 All Go 3/-5.3, SE Post 2/0, TE Deep Corner 1/0.

3 interceptions ..... 1. WR Deep, medium. 2. HB Release, med and 3. RB Curls, short. One by QB1 Cooper and the other two by QB2 Williams.

So, overall only one pass play had a positive avg per play, HB Flare medium. 22 short passes, 13 medium, and 6 long. Zero 1st downs passing, total net yards 49 (new low for me), 9 sacks for 80 yards lost (total of 17 sacks in the game, way too many for a simulation).
Last edited at 5/19/2021 1:15 pm

Re: Version 2.6.33

By raymattison21
5/19/2021 2:14 pm
As observational notes are concerned.... I noticed a lot of wrs letting up sacks on your guy. The pass block rating matters more. For oline but also skill players even more. Anything below 100 is suspect. And Gary link to s a magnet for sacks due to speed but the 4 times Edmonds got him was on long passes.

Not excuses but I see it as explainable and mostly avoidable..... BUT the rate receivers are slowed by bump really makes any passing tough . Pressure is still low and while QBs do run it’s just not often enough to counter the pressure that leads to sacks. (On certain plays)

Re: Version 2.6.33

By GrandadB
6/09/2021 7:37 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
As observational notes are concerned.... I noticed a lot of wrs letting up sacks on your guy. The pass block rating matters more. For oline but also skill players even more. Anything below 100 is suspect. And Gary link to s a magnet for sacks due to speed but the 4 times Edmonds got him was on long passes.

Not excuses but I see it as explainable and mostly avoidable..... BUT the rate receivers are slowed by bump really makes any passing tough . Pressure is still low and while QBs do run it’s just not often enough to counter the pressure that leads to sacks. (On certain plays)


Not sure what you mean by "wr's letting up sacks". Needing 100 pass block is a bit much too ask IMHO. There were a total of 15 sacks in my most recent game (Dallas - 4 and SF-11), which is a huge difference vs the regular current game version, whether certain plays are contributing to the totals or not. It has gotten to a point where I am anticipating a bad result every time my QB drops back to pass. That includes playing the "Bleeding Beta" in the Legends league. There's no way that can continue and expect players to stay in the game. Ot change the name to the Defensive Football Now. lol. A sack is a devastating defensive play, especially sacks of 10 or more yards. Currently, after 6 games played, there are 5 DE's with 10 sacks or more. In the RL NFL last season, Watt led the league with 15, followed by Darnold and Hednrikson with 12. At the current rate, the MFN1 sack leaders will be in excess of 20 sacks, and Im guessing the team totals for sacks will be close to double that of the RL NFL.

I withdrew a trade offer today involving QBs, mainly because after thinking about it, even if I were to get a better QB ito rating and attributes, it prob would not make much of, if any difference in the version we are currently playing in, and could worsen the passing game performance based on other factors, play familiarity for example.

The 2050 LC in MFN1 was won by a NE Patriot offense that ran 65 times for 304 yards and passed 9 times for 81 yards. They had zero interceptions vs their opponent, Green Bay, who had 4. Extensively using run plays was a strategy that worked well for that game and beta. But, was it closer to a RL NFL simulation? No way.

Re: Version 2.6.33

By raymattison21
6/10/2021 7:28 am
No doubt feedback has been similar to your experience but take out long passes and sacks go way down. 4.5 take out most long passes and sacks are at near zero. There’s only a few choices for the QB cause bump is slowing wrs so much.

First is throw to an open guy....some one near the top of the progression as described in the play description. Flanker hitch was great in 4:5 I don’t know if there’s a money play but in 4.6 but I do use poor FOV to force throws in to talent.

Most of the targets still go to the third or 4th options. WR3 or TE1 or RB/ FB are great unless someone gamplans to stop it. This is the decision making part. The QBs FOV or intelligence will dictate this part. FOV is the angle of view and intelligence helps the qb see the dumpoff.

The problem is the dump off on long passes is almost ignored until the pressure gets there. 4.5 the pressure just wasn’t there to effect passing. I glitched all those dump offs for big yards.

For pressure Using the nfl as an example ....Arron Donald the previous season had enough hurries to account for a whole teams worth of hurries here. Pressure is very close between 4.5 and 4.6 but 4.6 ends up with a lot more sacks with less hurries. Nfls really a 1to 4 ratio and 4.6 is 1to 1....

So pressure gets there but it’s is too impactful with the sack or the poor play. Making release, mobility , or weapons overpowered. Like you said the QBs might not matter unless you use low accuracy.

The comment of wrs letting up sacks ties into the pressure. As QBs do run now but look at some of their rushing averages.... the defensive spy is just not up to par yet. If they ran as much as the nfl we have a lot of 1000 yard rushing QBs with 10 plus averages but they will stand there and take a sack instead.

A wr at RB will have low pass blocking ...4.6 comes with new assignments on who picks up who on the blitz and backs and TEs need a pass block score to protect the qb . I am ok with that change but bump still slows all receivers too much to make anything matter. But no joke with the right players, plays , and some luck our sack rates are half of the nfls.

Good or bad the code is functional....and really I am only talking vs a man under scheme with some blitzes to stop the run. It’s your defensive style that bodes well.... really pre 4.0 has had this defensive style being unmatched.

Still the gap is closer than ever. Blitzes will stuff the run but will get beat and get the top. I don’t know if that could be said for any other code. My rush defensive is near tops in every beta league but we get passed on from time to time. But we blitz.... if you sit back teAms will run on you.

Now this is not perfect at all. I saw somebody rule in goal line vs a bomb pass in 212. The QBs should be able to throw over the top but they won’t. That the big problem you can stack the box cause these DBs just don’t get beat enough.

Yeah overuse a play and yes you can chunk them to death or get lucky on a 35 yard bomb for a long run and catch but this version of 4.6 is whack: subpar dBs are pretty good as long as you position them well and an elite dB can be pure lockdown making an elite wr1 or wr2 unless. Use them as a back to glitch the dumpoffs out of the backfield or put him in the slot so they draw more targets but a 1000 yard wr is super tough to get now. That will scare a lot away if they have played the game for years.

That is the hand fighting added years ago to make up for the speed differences caused by weight. Now Raising zero speed has exasperated how strong bump had to be to stop an all long pass game plan of the 4.3 days.

Bump keeps the timing and progression as designed and qb speed and ball carry keep the QBs footwork within a frame of that timing and progression. Those long passes are like 7-9 step drops most teams just don’t have the builds to keep this in a successful flow.

Run 1-3 step drops.... mostly short passes and sacks go way down... again good or bad look at some AI teams...they run a lot but they don’t use long passes to often either and they are tougher. Jdb has commented about teams should not call a lot of long passes cause it will result in a lot of sacks and this was the 4.3 days.

I am not saying it should be this strict or so sensitive but that’s cause of the bump (hand fighting). Just saying its avoidable to some extent. The 4.6 that has been scrapped had man schemes effectiveness lowered but zone me was made better. The same poor reads were still there but accuracy didn’t matter as much . I had 30-40 accuracy QBs completing passes under that code .... as bump makes coverage too tigh and accuracy/courage/ punish/ and luck become overpowered .

Raising zero speed has made coverage even tighter... both man and zone but now bump needs to be dropped so the wrs can reach a point so the qb can see if they are open and deliver a good throw. Honestly pressure is still low compared to the nfl.... it’s the QBs that are just dumb. Like I said if Coverage was as good as it is now realife QBs would just tuck and run. But they are still hampered cause of the defensive side doesn’t acknowledge what the QBs is doing unless they are on the blitz.

So in short there’s too many drops on deep passes and that even if the QBs throws that way. This is mostly dictated by accuracy if the passes are over 15 yards in the air. Adding pressure in to the mix is going to make a poor throw .... but once the overuse kicks in catch overs are rampant.

Either way talent matters like the past but I see it more in the pass blocking code that any other part now. Run blocking doesn’t matter as much in 4.6 but positioning is key cause every body is faster.

Re: Version 2.6.33

By setherick
6/12/2021 7:03 am
I don't see why you two are still bothering to debate this. The game is clearly not progressing beyond 4.5.

Re: Version 2.6.33

By raymattison21
6/12/2021 7:29 am
setherick wrote:
I don't see why you two are still bothering to debate this. The game is clearly not progressing beyond 4.5.


He scrapped the other 4.6 so who knows.... currently there seems to be an option to select one or the other code if you want . Perhaps that will be the future, but 4.5 is A thing of the past for me. I probably won’t continue to play the game if that was the only code available.

So in hopes and dreams I will this game to continue growing. Waste or not I am still having fun debating the code. Really I wish you ran some data on this version. It always is insightful but again seasons of multiple users is good info.

And really this is just me debating anything but gdad is a great user to follow throughout codes. I am glad he’s playing and commenting even if it for only a bit. Same like you or Infinity.... smirt is another as you guys played all the other versions and are good in all of them. Still everyone else using the beta code is great to pick apart as I seen some low accuracy QBs do ok but thier consistency is off . In other words it’s still all good data for me to dissect . And for those who choose to comment like admiral is only icing on the cake cause it’s great to get others views/takes.

Re: Version 2.6.33

By setherick
6/12/2021 8:05 am
When was the option to select different code base added?

Re: Version 2.6.33

By raymattison21
6/12/2021 11:14 am
setherick wrote:
When was the option to select different code base added?


I wouldn’t say added but with 4.6 still in the works and 4.5 released as the default one ....I am forever grateful for admiral for going through the steps to have the bleeding engine put in a few of his leagues not just mfn 1