NOTICE: This league is using the BLEEDING EDGE game engine. For more information, click here.

The new user interface is in preview!

Want to check it out? Click here! (If you don't like it, you can still switch back)

League Forums

Main - Beta Chat

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
11/02/2017 8:33 am
Tecra031 wrote:
I truly try not to be overly critical...but this update is EFFING AWFUL! No further explanation needed. Was this really even tested or a test game watched??? This is the kind of update that would really make me consider leaving this game after all this time. I'd love to paste a few examples, but it was the WHOLE game!


I watched most of your game, I saw several things that need to be addressed but I'm curious about the general type of issue you were seeing. The wacky plays I saw were the QB throwing too far out of bounds and a few rocket launch passes straight up when throwing while getting sacked. Most of the poor throws were pressure-induced; the question may be in this case if the pass blocking is not strong enough, but I'd want to see a much larger set of plays to decide that.

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic

By Tecra031
11/02/2017 8:55 am
Well, the QB throws the ball earlier in the route. While in itself is not bad, the QB is mostly throwing at the point of the WRs first cut. The QB is not throwing in front of the cut, but at the cut point, so the ball is constantly thrown behind after the receiver is long gone. Also, the QBs throw the ball WAY too quickly, not giving the receiver time to get into position. My QB is 97 INT and 100 FOV. Based on how this was described, he should have had better reads and better passes, but kept throwing to ball directly to DBs because the WR had already run well past the the point of the QB threw the ball because he was throwing at the wrong place. And while some were pressure induced, MANY were not.

In addition to that, the play by play was way off. Direct passes were shown as throw aways many times. The skyrocket bombs out of bounds and downfield were bad. The entire thing is not smooth or ready for roll out IMO.
Last edited at 11/02/2017 8:56 am

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic

By raymattison21
11/02/2017 9:21 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
Tecra031 wrote:
I truly try not to be overly critical...but this update is EFFING AWFUL! No further explanation needed. Was this really even tested or a test game watched??? This is the kind of update that would really make me consider leaving this game after all this time. I'd love to paste a few examples, but it was the WHOLE game!


I watched most of your game, I saw several things that need to be addressed but I'm curious about the general type of issue you were seeing. The wacky plays I saw were the QB throwing too far out of bounds and a few rocket launch passes straight up when throwing while getting sacked. Most of the poor throws were pressure-induced; the question may be in this case if the pass blocking is not strong enough, but I'd want to see a much larger set of plays to decide that.



My qb threw out of bounds alot ...as well as throws aways....like 20 or 30 times when half of the time there was no need to. Because I saw little pressure I though it was the engine being to sensitive when regarding the QB rating that effect the abilities to handle pressure . Like low s ramble and intelligence .

My opponents elite qb except arm strength threw a ton of those blimp passes . And the wr came back a caught a few of them....those I though were quite realistic . ...kinda like jump ***** when the db wasn't looking and the qb dropped it right in there after the wr repostioned himself and made the catch. Well, maybe not the 75 yard bomb off one leg rolling while away from pressure .

Still, to me it looked as though my dbs got torched, but when observin the stats they did quite well in comparison to the box score. My dbs were 25 for 75 and the opponent qb was more like 40 for 70 . That's the biggest discrepancy in the engine tallying receptions to catch alloweds. As there was a bunch of catch overs by my opponents offense . And mine as well but it seemed to be the guys with high route / catch/?


As for the out of bounds thing . ...my wrs were running there a lot and my qb just threw it

Last edited at 11/02/2017 9:23 am

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
11/02/2017 10:12 am
Tecra031 wrote:
Well, the QB throws the ball earlier in the route. While in itself is not bad, the QB is mostly throwing at the point of the WRs first cut. The QB is not throwing in front of the cut, but at the cut point, so the ball is constantly thrown behind after the receiver is long gone. Also, the QBs throw the ball WAY too quickly, not giving the receiver time to get into position. My QB is 97 INT and 100 FOV. Based on how this was described, he should have had better reads and better passes, but kept throwing to ball directly to DBs because the WR had already run well past the the point of the QB threw the ball because he was throwing at the wrong place. And while some were pressure induced, MANY were not.

In addition to that, the play by play was way off. Direct passes were shown as throw aways many times. The skyrocket bombs out of bounds and downfield were bad. The entire thing is not smooth or ready for roll out IMO.


If it said 'throw away' it was intentionally uncatchable - probably over the WR's head if it crossed his path. I am wondering if I need to reduce the probability for throw-aways as it does seem to be too frequent.

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic

By mardn72
11/02/2017 11:28 am
Broke down my game. Here's my thoughts:

Passes to RBs – This was mentioned, but they need work. Getting out too quick actually.
Immediate pass to RB feels off: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304566

Threw so quickly to the RB, the RB wasn't ready to catch the ball even. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304685


Double Coverage – It seems like double-coverage is broken. Because there are two defenders there, neither get "tight" and it's always a completion.
Receiver is double covered and the DB has plenty of time to make the play. Still a catch. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304570

Again, double covered and still a catch. Elite WR though so that probably explains it. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304587

Weirdly played double coverage:
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304619

Double coverage again not making a difference.
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304697
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304698


Throw Away – they seemed all over the place.
What clearly looks like a throw away under pressure, isn't noted as one https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304592

I guess calling this a throw away explains why it was such a bad throw. Just not sure why he threw it away when the slot receiver was wide open and he wasn't under pressure. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304597

Third and 5, not under pressure, and he throws it away. Seems like QBs shouldn't throw it away unless they are feeling the pressure. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304715


Throwing Into Coverage - DB coverage skills seem better, but QBs still seem to throw into too much coverage.
Throws into a lot of coverage https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304578

This ended up working, but that is a lot of defenders to throw into. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304679

This is bad. There is no way the receiver should have been considered open. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304668

Interesting decision making. Of the 3 WR in the FOV, I'd argue the one he threw it to was the most covered. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304579

The QB should not throw this. Would have been a good time to throw away. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304683


The Good
Love this. I need 1 yard to convert and the QB gets the ball out right away to a WR that had the DB playing off. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304595

Happy to see tight cover work https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304637

Example of a quick hook. Seems like the QB shouldn't make the WR come so far back for the ball. But at least he gets it out quick. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304607

Seems like a good-ish throw away. Was under a ton of pressure. Could argue he had an open receiver, but not bad decision. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304652

I like this. The QB didn't force it into coverage and as soon as the WR came open he threw it. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304671


Other
Not sure what the DB was doing on coverage here. Pretty elite DB just seems to be in a bad position. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304582

Saw a TON of plays like this. Quick throw to a WR covered 1:1. It was against me, so seemed a little annoying, but if I had my elite WR in 1:1 coverage, I'd want to get him the ball too. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304590

Tight coverage didn't seem to mean much on this play. https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304684

Really out of bounds: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304624

Not pass related, but five injuries on one play? https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7218#1304600
Last edited at 11/02/2017 11:30 am

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic

By setherick
11/02/2017 12:05 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
setherick wrote:
5) I GOT AN EFFING OVERUSE PENALTY RUNNING A GL DEFENSE AGAINST A GL OFFENSIVE SET? THIS IS STUPID! WE WERE TOLD THAT SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN AND IF IT'S A NEW THING, I WILL QUIT BECAUSE THERE ARE 5 GL DEFENSIVE PLAYS - ONLY 1 THAT WORKS AGAINST THE PASS - AND THERE ARE 50 GL OFFENSIVE PLAYS: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7226#1306225 (Just look at Cincy's last drive where one got called every time Cincy went to the 221 set.)


I may take the notification out because it does fire sometimes even when there is no penalty applied (because the offense is in, as this case, a goal line formation).


Ah, that makes sense.

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic

By Beercloud
11/03/2017 3:34 am
I think this new logic is a step in the right direction but will need a lot of tweeking and testing before it is ready. Judging by the first game with it.

It seems like it has made passes of 10+ yds easier to complete and the QB is getting rid of the ball too quick at times on short routes. Getting rid of the ball too quick isn't necessarily a bad thing if it only happens once in a while and dependent on the QB's intel and play familiarity.

It also looks like it may combat heavy blitzing in the pass game. Running the ball against heavy blitzing is still doesnt look like a very good option.

Getting rid of the ball to early example: Two plays back to back for the example.
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7231#1307037

And this: I'll post this in the bug section but man does my QB have an arm.
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7231#1307091

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic

By raymattison21
11/03/2017 7:25 am
I love the new logic . ...

But......

Saw another bomb go for 90 yards....

And Gdad's tri system had negative effects on his third qb. His junky second qb did quite well .

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic

By raymattison21
11/03/2017 8:37 am
Knockdowns were exceptionally high previous , but now they seem low. Ints seem to be generating higher numbers, but the visual knockdowns I see are not always represented in the tallied statistics in either the box score or player s stats.

Perhaps having some of those passes that bounce off defenders, that do not count as knockdowns but effect the completion, count as knockdowns again could possibly level numbers.

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
11/03/2017 7:26 pm
Continued here:

http://mfnow.us/imb61C