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Main - General MFN Discussion

Re: If There Is Any Hope of Surviving Version 0.4.3........

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
8/30/2018 9:04 pm
Big Poppa wrote:
Without getting into the back and forth...In my opinion 043 is worse than 042. And I didn't think that was possible.


I'm sorry that this release has caused such outrage, I will try to address the issues quickly and release 0.4.4 addressing the issues that are causing the problems. If you are interested in making this game better, please visit the MFN-1 beta forums, even if you aren't able to get a team in there but have time to study film, I am relying heavily on user feedback. It's been said before but there is not a team of full time developers behind this game, it's me doing it in my spare time, and while I wish I had the ability to work on it with a team of full time developers that's just not the place the game is at at right now. I'd love to get more conversations going on in MFN-1 with specific examples of things not working. General comments like 'this game is worse than before' are neither helpful nor productive. (I'm not picking on you, specifically, there are a number of users who have said comments to this effect). There have been threads that start out productive and degenerate to angry outbursts about how terrible this game is now. I want the productive feedback, but honestly I don't have the time nor am I willing to wade through all of the angry, nonproductive posts. I love that you all are enthusiastic about the game, but this is still a product under heavy development with a long, long way to go and if you are not willing to accept that then please feel free to stop playing until it is more stable. But if you really do want this to become more stable, please stick around, and give productive, useful feedback, because that's what I need from all of you.

Re: If There Is Any Hope of Surviving Version 0.4.3........

By Booger926
8/30/2018 9:19 pm
setherick wrote:
CrazyRazor wrote:
I'm with JDB on this one. NO player should be exactly as advertised. When has that ever been the case? A boom is a homerun and a bust is a complete whiff. You're complaining about a minimal drop in future potential. He went up in current ability, so he definitely did not bust. I don't hear you complaining when the 86 vol guy goes up 2 points, instead of 15-20. I guess that's acceptable, considering the other alternative, huh?


I stubbornly disagree. SOME number has to mean SOMETHING on this game. I understand most of the game is just RNG nonsense. Can at least Vol make sense?

Also, 0 Vol should mean your scouting department did their ******* job? (And the player was from the U of Iowa...)


There is no absolutely reason why a 88 defaulted rated player with a 0 VOL should drop to a default rating of 63 after training camp. This has happened to me twice in 6 seasons as well as I am sure has happened to other owners. A minus of -4/-5 is acceptable (that's a 6% decrease which can be explained by playing in a smaller school to boost stats) but a 25 default drop only means that someone who entered the draft only has experience in a powder- puff flag football league. Too many experienced and winning % owners has complained about this that it CANNOT be just a case of sour grapes

Re: If There Is Any Hope of Surviving Version 0.4.3........

By Infinity on Trial
8/31/2018 7:19 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
Here is a rough explanation of the math with the attribute movement. The movement of the future value is based on a normal distribution random number. That means that it should trend toward its mean. The standard deviation of this distribution is based on the distance between the current and future values. Volatility is a value that moves the mean. So 0 volatility means the mean is zero - which means that the movement is just as likely to go up as it is to go down. Volatility of 100 means that the mean of the distribution is at the max either up or down. The only thing you don't know is whether that 100 is positive or negative.

So yes, someone with 0 volatility can and always has been able to recover what they lost in their first training camp. Training camp, though, moves a distance of about equal to the movement during the entire season, so to move back you would need an inverse of roughly the same random number generated at each game stage all season long. If a 0 volatility player moves by a value outside of the third standard deviation (0.2% chance) you're right, he probably won't recover from that. But if the more likely scenario happens where he's at the outside of one standard deviation, he could recover most of that during the season and in the next training camp. But he's also just as likely to continue to drop.


I appreciate this explanation, but in my experience, I've never seen a player lose potential then gain even part of it back. Or vice versa.

Re: If There Is Any Hope of Surviving Version 0.4.3........

By setherick
8/31/2018 7:52 am
Infinity on Trial wrote:
jdavidbakr wrote:
Here is a rough explanation of the math with the attribute movement. The movement of the future value is based on a normal distribution random number. That means that it should trend toward its mean. The standard deviation of this distribution is based on the distance between the current and future values. Volatility is a value that moves the mean. So 0 volatility means the mean is zero - which means that the movement is just as likely to go up as it is to go down. Volatility of 100 means that the mean of the distribution is at the max either up or down. The only thing you don't know is whether that 100 is positive or negative.

So yes, someone with 0 volatility can and always has been able to recover what they lost in their first training camp. Training camp, though, moves a distance of about equal to the movement during the entire season, so to move back you would need an inverse of roughly the same random number generated at each game stage all season long. If a 0 volatility player moves by a value outside of the third standard deviation (0.2% chance) you're right, he probably won't recover from that. But if the more likely scenario happens where he's at the outside of one standard deviation, he could recover most of that during the season and in the next training camp. But he's also just as likely to continue to drop.


I appreciate this explanation, but in my experience, I've never seen a player lose potential then gain even part of it back. Or vice versa.


That's because it does not happen with players, and it only rarely happens with coaches. And the coaches that go up and down basically stay within a standard deviation of their starting score, and therefore, never actually improve. The whole mechanism is deterministic as opposed to relative based on coaches, owners, playbooks, attributes like DI and IN, etc. I think Vol just needs to go away for players and relative gains and losses be based on a combination on coach skill and a players IN and DI. It would certainly make those attributes more interesting.

But, right now, I'd settle for a passing game that was not nerfed and coverage that worked.

Re: If There Is Any Hope of Surviving Version 0.4.3........

By Infinity on Trial
8/31/2018 8:01 am
Given the wonky results we are seeing and evidence that contradicts JDB's explanation, I have to wonder if there are bugs in the calculations. As it is, player development is working about as well as power rankings.

Re: If There Is Any Hope of Surviving Version 0.4.3........

By punisher
9/03/2018 2:18 pm
Well i reason what i am about to post is about 0.4.2 version yet maybe if people are so unhappy about 0.4.3 version then maybe join a league that is still in 0.4.2 version which there is only 8 leagues still in that version and about 6 of them dont have much left before they switch over which means there is still 7 leagues that have a ways to go before they do so maybe playing in only those leagues would keep your mind off of the new version for a little awhile

anyway here are those 8 leagues
these 1 is spinning again
Talk is Cheap League = https://billsmafia.myfootballnow.com/ 12 week

these 7 have stopped spinning
Custom 79 = https://cust79.myfootballnow.com/ end of season
CFSL = https://cfsl.myfootballnow.com/ Wildcard Round
American Empire Football = https://aefl.myfootballnow.com/ 9th week
NFL Live League = https://nflliveleague.myfootballnow.com/ game 4th
International Football League = https://ifl.myfootballnow.com/ 2nd week
Sweden All Stars = https://allstars.myfootballnow.com/ preseason 2nd week
Turf Wars = https://turfwars.myfootballnow.com/ Late free agency
Last edited at 9/07/2018 7:54 am

Re: If There Is Any Hope of Surviving Version 0.4.3........

By King of Bling
9/05/2018 8:07 pm
I am not a computer whiz by any stretch of the imagination.. At least my teams are always competitive and I do very much enjoy the game. However, the 4.3 version would be better served by going back to 4.2 and skipping to 4.4.

The passing game, once it gets thrown into the dreaded "poorly thrown pass, ball seemed to slip out of his hand, etc Mode" is dreadful to watch and play. If a new version is a regression, may I suggest to go back and reevaluate rather than stick with an inferior update.


Re: If There Is Any Hope of Surviving Version 0.4.3........

By tosu
9/25/2018 9:22 am
Let's go back to 4.2 until improvements can be made.
4.3 is TERRIBLE!!!

Re: If There Is Any Hope of Surviving Version 0.4.3........

By lellow2011
9/25/2018 10:09 am
tosu wrote:
Let's go back to 4.2 until improvements can be made.
4.3 is TERRIBLE!!!


I've had leagues where I had to go and remove every play with a pass to the RB in the flats, also putting a fast, light guy at TE and throwing to them deep is highly exploitable. They usually get LB coverage and end up wide open down the middle.

Re: If There Is Any Hope of Surviving Version 0.4.3........

By setherick
9/25/2018 10:35 am
lellow2011 wrote:
...also putting a fast, light guy at TE and throwing to them deep is highly exploitable. They usually get LB coverage and end up wide open down the middle.


This was always the case. It's also really easy to stop by adjusting coverages.