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Re: In the word of Colombo...

By setherick
10/26/2016 9:59 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
So it doesn't matter what the defensive playcall/formation is, or even who is open?


The read progression is determined before the play begins. The WR1 (the position on the formation, not your #1 WR) does get the primary weight, but that doesn't mean he's always the primary receiver. He just will be most often.

If the receiver chosen as the primary is not open, the QB will go to the next player in the selected progression.


So on swing passes, is the RB ever the WR1 for the position formation?

Re: In the word of Colombo...

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
10/26/2016 12:16 pm
setherick wrote:
jdavidbakr wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
So it doesn't matter what the defensive playcall/formation is, or even who is open?


The read progression is determined before the play begins. The WR1 (the position on the formation, not your #1 WR) does get the primary weight, but that doesn't mean he's always the primary receiver. He just will be most often.

If the receiver chosen as the primary is not open, the QB will go to the next player in the selected progression.


So on swing passes, is the RB ever the WR1 for the position formation?


Yes, the RB will frequently be the primary target on many plays. The weight given to the WR1 is only substantial enough to ensure that he is the primary target when using a well-rounded offense.

Re: In the word of Colombo...

By jhartshorn
10/26/2016 1:55 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:


The read progression is determined before the play begins. The WR1 (the position on the formation, not your #1 WR) does get the primary weight, but that doesn't mean he's always the primary receiver. He just will be most often.


I get that. But how does that compare to the RB or TE? I was told many weeks ago that the important thing (for weighting) was what type of play it is (short. medium etc.) hence the initial question about what constitutes short/med/lng.

Re: In the word of Colombo...

By jhartshorn
10/26/2016 2:09 pm
So I'm looking at some of the plays I use; this is one: PA (?) Fullback Flat - short pass play

QB: Running Play/Play Action
RB: 12 Yards (Right)
FB: Drag Right
TE: 5 Yards (Left)
WR: 10 Yards
WR (2): 5 Yards (Right)
LT: Pass Block
LG: Pass Block
C: Pass Block
RG: Pass Block
RT: Pass Block

In this case, who would the heaviest weighting go to? the RB & TE as they're running short distances, or the WR1 even though he's running 10yds (surely not short pass play?)

Re: In the word of Colombo...

By raymattison21
10/26/2016 4:41 pm
jhartshorn wrote:
So I'm looking at some of the plays I use; this is one: PA (?) Fullback Flat - short pass play

QB: Running Play/Play Action
RB: 12 Yards (Right)
FB: Drag Right
TE: 5 Yards (Left)
WR: 10 Yards
WR (2): 5 Yards (Right)
LT: Pass Block
LG: Pass Block
C: Pass Block
RG: Pass Block
RT: Pass Block

In this case, who would the heaviest weighting go to? the RB & TE as they're running short distances, or the WR1 even though he's running 10yds (surely not short pass play?)


With no blitz it would be
FB
WR2
TE
WR1
RB

With a blitz i bet WR1 is weigted even more. There no order just a higher likelyhood of this order with no blitz.

PA is play action. This is a fake handoff to the back to draw pass defenders in.
Last edited at 10/26/2016 4:43 pm

Re: In the word of Colombo...

By jhartshorn
10/26/2016 4:49 pm
raymattison21 wrote:


With no blitz it would be
FB
WR2
TE
WR1
RB

With a blitz i bet WR1 is weigted even more. There no order just a higher likelyhood of this order with no blitz.

PA is play action. This is a fake handoff to the back to draw pass defenders in.


Your first statement suggests, the chosen route depends on the defense play - I thought in this game they were independent?

PA - Thanks - at last I know! I had heard of these in real life, but not put 2 and 2 together!

How have you come up with that order? In reverse order of distance as it's a short play?

Again, finally this reverts to the OP of: is there a 'key' to working out this order?

Re: In the word of Colombo...

By WarEagle
10/26/2016 5:45 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
jhartshorn wrote:
So I'm looking at some of the plays I use; this is one: PA (?) Fullback Flat - short pass play

QB: Running Play/Play Action
RB: 12 Yards (Right)
FB: Drag Right
TE: 5 Yards (Left)
WR: 10 Yards
WR (2): 5 Yards (Right)
LT: Pass Block
LG: Pass Block
C: Pass Block
RG: Pass Block
RT: Pass Block

In this case, who would the heaviest weighting go to? the RB & TE as they're running short distances, or the WR1 even though he's running 10yds (surely not short pass play?)


With no blitz it would be
FB
WR2
TE
WR1
RB

With a blitz i bet WR1 is weigted even more. There no order just a higher likelyhood of this order with no blitz.

PA is play action. This is a fake handoff to the back to draw pass defenders in.


This seems to contradict what JDB said previously in this post.

I thought he said the priority is determined before the snap, so the QB wouldn't know it's a blitz

Also, I thought he said WR1 always had the highest priority regardless of play type, or at least the highest chance of being the #1 target

Did I misunderstand what he said?

I would quote him, but I'm on my phone

Re: In the word of Colombo...

By setherick
10/26/2016 6:06 pm
What WarEagle said is how I understand it too.

Here's what I understand:

1) The primary receiver is chosen presnap.
1.a) The primary receiver is chosen at random.
1.b) The route of a receiver that matches the play call gets heaviest weight.
1.c) Some receiver running the route that matches the play call is designated 1st in the priority. That player is weighted heavier than all others.

DICE ROLL

After the snap:

1) The QB stares down whoever was randomly selected in the dice roll.
1.a) The selected receiver finishes his designed route.
2) After waiting for the selected receiver to finish his route, the QB decides whether he's going to throw it there.
2.a) The QB's FOV influences if he even sees the receiver finish the route, sees other receivers in the area, gets distracted by a cheerleader, and balances his checkbook.
2.b) The QB's Arm dictates if he'll even throw it to that spot if he sees it in subbullet b.
2.c) The QB finishes making the decision.
3) Passing release dictates how long it takes from 2.c to the actual throw.
3.b) Arm dictates how quickly the ball arrives at the spot.
4) The accuracy formula dictates how close to the actual spot the ball arrives.

I mean, if I understand it all correctly that's how it goes. I'm definitely sure about the balancing the checkbook point. That's essential.

Re: In the word of Colombo...

By raymattison21
10/26/2016 10:17 pm
WarEagle wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
jhartshorn wrote:
So I'm looking at some of the plays I use; this is one: PA (?) Fullback Flat - short pass play

QB: Running Play/Play Action
RB: 12 Yards (Right)
FB: Drag Right
TE: 5 Yards (Left)
WR: 10 Yards
WR (2): 5 Yards (Right)
LT: Pass Block
LG: Pass Block
C: Pass Block
RG: Pass Block
RT: Pass Block

In this case, who would the heaviest weighting go to? the RB & TE as they're running short distances, or the WR1 even though he's running 10yds (surely not short pass play?)


With no blitz it would be
FB
WR2
TE
WR1
RB

With a blitz i bet WR1 is weigted even more. There no order just a higher likelyhood of this order with no blitz.

PA is play action. This is a fake handoff to the back to draw pass defenders in.


This seems to contradict what JDB said previously in this post.

I thought he said the priority is determined before the snap, so the QB wouldn't know it's a blitz

Also, I thought he said WR1 always had the highest priority regardless of play type, or at least the highest chance of being the #1 target

Did I misunderstand what he said?

I would quote him, but I'm on my phone



All you guy can read in to it how ever you want. I answered a question wrong prove it. What order do you think? Random... sure. He put a random factor in so users dont abuse plays, but there still is a formula used each play with a likely hood of a reciever being prechosen. You just dont know exactly will happen.

All the games factors come in to play on almost every pass. Narrowing it down is a joke, but an educated guess it that. If i am not educated here then prove me wrong.

Sounds easier than anyone elses points. Words are a riddle that has clues. Put tons of them together and a picture will form.

I have no idea exactly who i am throwning to on any given play, but i bet most of the time i a passing to the guy i want. JDB is not talking about blitzes either I am. Also, you do not know what the defense calls that changes progression values also.

Re: In the word of Colombo...

By Brrexkl
10/26/2016 11:26 pm
WHY is the Priority Receiver random? This makes no sense.

Plays are concepts, which are designed with an intended Primary Target... all the other Routes on a Play are based on only 3 things.

1. Improving the chance of the Primary being open. This would be using a Drag inside of a Slant to move the LB/S out of the way of the Slant, or using a Go Route by a Slot to open up the Post for the WO.

2. Having an open route if the Defense takes away the Primary. This is usually something attacking a different area... so if the Primary is a 7 Yard Drag and both the LB and S attack it, you have a Route attacking the vacated area the Safety left, like a Seam Route.

3. Having an option available in case of Blitz, the Hot Route. Since you don't know where the Blitz will come from, there are usually multiple Hot Routes, and THE Hot Route is determined by area of Blitz. In a CB Blitz you often throw to the WR where the CB was, before the Defense can rotate to cover him. On an OLB Blitz you generally have a RB or TE attack the Flat vacated by the Blitzing LB.

In no way should a Primary Read be Random, because that destroys the intended progression, which is a combination of From Side to Side and Depth. Which is your Progression. Progression STARTS from your Primary Target.

So I don't understand at all why the Primary would be a Random Function.