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Game Engine Beta Discussion: Gameplay Updates for 4.7
League News/General Discussion
NOTICE: This league is using the BLEEDING EDGE game engine. For more information, click here.
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martinwarnett
Re: Game Engine Beta Discussion: Gameplay Updates for 4.7
by martinwarnett @ 8/03/2026 10:32 am
GrandadB wrote:

Not everyone wants more simulation to RL football. Which is why any controls for minimum active play selection and maximum use of a play per game should be a league decision and controllable by the league admin, same as injury rate.

JDB's vision is realism. I agree admins need the autonomy to loosen away from that goal, to have "Smirt leagues", a bit of something for everyone.

Those two leagues were the only ones at the time where a long pass play might work occasionally without getting blitzed and sacked 90% of the time. Where 2 & 3 deep zone coverages would be used.

Neither league played under a different sim to other leagues at the time, so unless you were mandating certain defences vs offences...

I let both leagues go after we had lost more than half the owners who did not want to subscribe, did not want to see ads interfering with the game, and/or had lost interest in the game due to non-improvement to the game engine. It verified that there were more than enough MFN players who wanted that type of game.

No, that verified people wanted a purely free game, and whilst everyone would love improvements to happen quicker, we're a) where we are and b) game not making enough for JDB to quit full time work and hire developers. The game has to make enough to cover server costs, additional costs (ie AI image tools, reports) and in an ideal work, become big enough to make JDB able to focus 100% on the game.

So, back to the question at hand, the best option to me is to put the controls in for the auto manager and coach to add plays if there is a deficiency, same as for the roster

Would have to be intelligence based; develop rules, avoid putting plays in for rules that would cause them never to be triggered, avoid combinations that would lead to overuse, avoid selecting only plays that were "too good" or "too bad". Ideally, would factor in HC playbook, HC ratings, OC and DC ratings. Would be a fair chunk of work there. Without rules, every AI gameplan would be random plays, every down for the most part?

have the AI coach change a play (other than using a GL out of realistic situation, like 3rd and 10), along with a QB "audible" function based on the QBs ability to read a defense and recognize a blitz if overused by a defense.

Problem is, the latter makes it an offensive show with defence not having opportunity to react, as JDB has previously said. It's good in theory and something I don't disagree with in concept, but you're in a 203, see defence in quarters, if team doesn't 100% audible to run people would then complain.

[quot]Blitzing should be based on the NFL % of blitz. "The average blitz rate in the NFL is approximately 26% to 29% of defensive snaps, varying by season and analytical tracking". Again, only way to get that simulation or anywhere close to it is by use of the AI Coach and code, and league admin control/settings. Any other way?[/quote]

The problem with your logic though is that under the current engine, blitzing is way overpowered - that's why people blitz so much.

Blitz and you fill the gaps, stuffing the run. Blitz and unless the QB gets the ball away quickly, bad things can happen.

The issues for me are more that O line are beaten too easily, speed still the op attribute within the game, and I find RB/FBs don't always pick up the blitz well enough. Sure, gameplan may have you running a simple route in the backfield for a dumpoff, but you see that LB/CB totally unblocked heading for your QB, I doubt many HCs would complain about the back at least trying to chip them if not abandon route.

I think the problem is that people are trying to solve the short term problem (blitzing) without addressing the longer term problems that make blitzing so effective (O line holding blocks/beaten off line, backs not picking up blitz, QB holding ball too long and taking sack, QB not always throwing away, QB not able to extend plays).

Address the long term issues and we should get to a situation where blitzing isn't 100% effective as a standard tactic, but good in certain situations. That's the preferrable route for me than making playcalling restrictions per se.

If the game engine is at a state where blitzing all the time can be exploited, then people are free to choose to do that as a defensive tactic - but would get punished.

That's where the game needs to get to imo. Different styles of offence can do well, with on field talent and good playcalling rules. Ditto defences.
Liked by GrandadB
GrandadB
Re: Game Engine Beta Discussion: Gameplay Updates for 4.7
by GrandadB @ 8/03/2026 11:23 am
Neither league played under a different sim to other leagues at the time, so unless you were mandating certain defences vs offences...

No, there was no mandating, which would have been impossible to do in the first place. The requirement was simply to select a full number of active plays, with the gameplan sliders all set evenly other than less used personnel/formations at a lower slider setting/%. Offense personnel was similar with the majority of use on 212, 113, 23 formations, followed by 311, 2 TE, and 4/5 WR formations. It made the games, IMO and others, much more challenging to both play fairly, get the desired variety of plays and use, and play competitively. RO is the extreme, what we were trying to do was to get somewhere in between RO and play/roster exploits.

No, that verified people wanted a purely free game

Strongly disagree, that was a very few who did not want to pay anything, that view is based on the posts I saw and messages that I got. It wasnt a matter of paying, especially the low amount, it was more of an attitude of "Im not paying for the game version being worse than it was before". It was more of a perception and opinion that the game had not improved since 4.3 or 4.4, and that it had gone the other way.

I totally understand the problem that JDB has in developing and improving the game vs RL priorities. IMO, the game is at a point where it needs a new approach/plan and help to get the development tools necessary to take it where I and others would like to see it go, to achieve more realism and simulation of the NFL game. Exactly how that would best be done, I dont have the expertise to produce viable suggestions. Maybe the answer is in examples. Examples of games developed in a similar path and became successful with over 1000 users or so. Just throwing out ideas.
will0w08
Re: Game Engine Beta Discussion: Gameplay Updates for 4.7
by will0w08 @ 8/03/2026 1:56 pm
It's an AI answer, so we can safely assume that it's absolutely wrong. :D
Liked by martinwarnett, ArmoredGiraffe
ArmoredGiraffe
Re: Game Engine Beta Discussion: Gameplay Updates for 4.7
by ArmoredGiraffe @ 8/05/2026 7:21 am
The 230 PA pass needs looked at because why is my QB looking at the wide open receiver, FB2, and still choosing to throw it to my TE2 who is in the middle of the field and covered every time. Also, the goal line defenses need to cover the FB2 or the pass needs to have less receivers to be covered by the defense. As it stands now, every team should have the play selected and in use against teams that run GL defense vs GL offense
warrior462
Re: Game Engine Beta Discussion: Gameplay Updates for 4.7
by warrior462 @ 8/05/2026 8:00 am
This game is a bit old, something I've been thinking of that I just finally got around to. Watch the whole series.

https://ifl.myfootballnow.com/watch/218#36896

Can tosses please be fixed so they can be intentionally used? This is RO, so I have no control over it. This came very close to turning a W into a L or T. There is no reason RB's should be running backwards and getting 10-12 yards deep in the backfield on toss plays.
Liked by ArmoredGiraffe, martinwarnett, GrandadB
GrandadB
Re: Game Engine Beta Discussion: Gameplay Updates for 4.7
by GrandadB @ 8/05/2026 8:15 am
will0w08 wrote:
It's an AI answer, so we can safely assume that it's absolutely wrong. :D

From everything Im seeing online, the opposite is where things are at with AI, including hacking to avoid shut down, writing papers for college students, et al. "safely assume"?, I dont think so.

Whether you agree, not sure, or dont agree, it is a major concern to me and how it will impact and affect my grandkids, great grandkids, and the human pop in general. Where is AI going? The simple answer is the most obvious one: It's going to get better. And where it's at right now is disturbing enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci5rCe9vmxw
Last edited 8/05/2026 12:17 pm
Liked by TheWitchHunter
martinwarnett
Re: Game Engine Beta Discussion: Gameplay Updates for 4.7
by martinwarnett @ 8/05/2026 10:51 am
ArmoredGiraffe wrote:
The 230 PA pass needs looked at because why is my QB looking at the wide open receiver, FB2, and still choosing to throw it to my TE2 who is in the middle of the field and covered every time. Also, the goal line defenses need to cover the FB2 or the pass needs to have less receivers to be covered by the defense. As it stands now, every team should have the play selected and in use against teams that run GL defense vs GL offense
|

That's a Smirt tactic.

The problem is, GL defence by definition is very much "line everyone up at the LoS and send everyone". To cover all 5 eligible receivers then means you're sending 6 - is that necessarily realistic?

Grandad will like this bit though - it's a consequence of goalline offence being as staple in other scenarios.

I'm not sure JDB can necessarily resolve that without making fairly fundamental changes to the plays on the defensive side. Maybe that's the right answer... or maybe defenders need to be able to spot uncovered receivers and break from their assignment sooner?
Liked by GrandadB
GrandadB
Re: Game Engine Beta Discussion: Gameplay Updates for 4.7
by GrandadB @ 8/05/2026 11:10 am
Grandad will like this bit though - it's a consequence of goalline offence being as staple in other scenarios.

Dont like any play that can be exploited, GL or otherwise. Here is a good example what AG was referring to from our CC game, we got lucky on the fumble but it shows how wide open the receiver can be in a GL vs GL matchup, probably moreso vs a GL #3 with the additional blitzer...

Offensive Play: Goal Line Normal PA TE Drag
Defensive Play: Goal Line Attack #3
Pass Key

GL defense was automatically used by rule vs GL offense.

2-10-CIN 42 (15:00) 6-Joseph Galle pass complete to 87-Elliott Lopez to DEN 18 for 40 yards. 87-Elliott Lopez FUMBLES ( 45-Scott Anderson ) recovered by DEN-45-Scott Anderson at DEN 14. Tackle by 87-Elliott Lopez .

2nd and 10, midfield .... not a situation where the NFL uses a GL play, 2 TE maybe, but not GL.
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/21643#3952629
Last edited 8/05/2026 3:16 pm
warrior462
Re: Game Engine Beta Discussion: Gameplay Updates for 4.7
by warrior462 @ 8/05/2026 1:53 pm
There is no need for a bunch of arguing back and forth on the GL offense pass situation. It is as simple as labeling the FB that lines up as the wing WR4 instead of WR5. A very simple switch. Then most GL defenses (NOT including Attack #3 GDB, which covers only 3 WR's) will cover him instead of letting him run free.
Liked by ArmoredGiraffe
martinwarnett
Re: Game Engine Beta Discussion: Gameplay Updates for 4.7
by martinwarnett @ 8/05/2026 4:27 pm
warrior462 wrote:
There is no need for a bunch of arguing back and forth on the GL offense pass situation. It is as simple as labeling the FB that lines up as the wing WR4 instead of WR5. A very simple switch. Then most GL defenses (NOT including Attack #3 GDB, which covers only 3 WR's) will cover him instead of letting him run free.

And then, as QB progression increases, he finds WR5 (who would it be in that switch case?) is uncovered.

Which means vs GL offences, you either need GL defences that cover WR1-5 OR defensive players can intelligently break assignments to not leave uncovered WR OR Zone is improved to pick this up.
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