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Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By Beercloud
4/17/2017 7:29 am
Was there any changes made to the run game before the bowl game?

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
4/17/2017 8:30 am
Beercloud wrote:
Was there any changes made to the run game before the bowl game?


No, I haven't touched the run game since probably week 10 or 12.

I did post to the season thread, though, a question to see if chinaski would reveal what he did to game plan. The huge breakaway runs appears to be against a pass key (one thing that was introduced this season was a more effective penalty for incorrectly calling a run or pass key). The other thing I noticed on those plays was that they were against a blitz play that was used quite a bit in the game, so it may have had an impact from the overuse penalty.

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By blackflys
4/18/2017 2:36 am
Here's my last game of the season https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/box/view/6307
This one might also give you a sample

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By Ares
4/25/2017 3:18 am
Dump off logic issues from my L75 game running 0.4.1:

https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1009#189665

https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1009#189736

I don't know if any changes went in to the logic for open field runners, but my punt returns all seemed to go sideways:

https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1009#189639
https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1009#189710
https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1009#189745

That last one is also a prime example of a penalty incorrectly being declined.

Receiver seems to use the same 'beeline for the sideline' logic:

https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1009#189641

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By Ares
4/27/2017 3:45 am
I don't know whether you prefer these posts here or in the main bug forum; let me know if you have a preference.

Punt returns def all veering to the sideline. No clue how something this obviously broken managed to slip through the cracks, haha.

https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1025#192614

Etc, etc, etc.

Outside pitches (or at least this particular play) seem to also be broken with the new code:

https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1025#192565

Veers wayyy too deep and wide.

So for pre-season I have ZERO defensive rules activated, and my gameplan is set to neutral run/pass in all situations for second down. And yet...

2-6-IRN 12 (6:47) 9-Travis Hill ran to IRN 10 for 2 yards. Tackle by 98-Scott Holmes.
Offensive Play: Singleback Big HB Inside Strong
Defensive Play: 3-4 Normal Double WR2 - Run Key

Is there any reason this would get overridden?

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By setherick
4/27/2017 5:08 am
Some general reflections on 0.4.1. As was discussed before it was released, run blocking is way too overpowered now and run key does absolutely nothing. This is going to make blitzing even more important.

As an example, you can look at my most recent preseason game in 75. I keyed run on all 1-10s and ended up getting gouged badly on those plays because I wasn't blitzing anyone: https://private75.myfootballnow.com/log/1018

I specifically got gouged by the 113 HB Counter which is partially my fault for not calling a M2M All Out Blitz against the play since that was the only way to stop it before.

Play overuse does nothing. My opponent ran that effing 113 HB Counter 20 times for more than 10 yards a run AGAINST RUN KEY defense.

Zone remains worthless, so the only defense you can ever run is a M2M. And since you can't stop the run without blitzing, Blitz 2 will still win the day.

In short, nothing has changed. I'm done. I quit.

---

Had a hunch, took a look, and I was right. All of these plays were the result of players NOT PROPERLY PLAYING THEIR ZONES. Instead of recognizing the run and pursuing the running back -- after all the defenders are IN RUN KEY -- the zone players all run away.

1) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1018#191296
a. Defense: Nickle 3-Deep Man Under - Run Key
b. The outside WRs get double covered on this play. On the snap, watch the CB2 running the zone on the weak side. He starts to drop back into his zone. Then he sprints to the middle of the field away from the play INSTEAD of coming up in run pursuit. WHY? The RB easily outruns the 100 SP DE to the corner and is gone.

2) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1018#191298
a. Defense: Nickle 3-Deep Man Under - Run Key
b. Same defensive call. Same stupid play by the CB2. Same result.

3) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1018#191323
a. Defense: Nickle Normal Man Zone
b. Watch the WLB who is running the hook zone. He starts to drop back into his zone. Recognizes the run. Starts to sprint AWAY from the play toward the center of the field. And then gets swallowed by the OL that gets to the second level. The CB and the Safety ALSO RUN TO THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD AWAY FROM THE PLAY before deciding to turn around and pursue. Same result by the offense.

4) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1018#191324
a. Defense: Nickle Normal Man Zone (why does the matrix repeatedly call the same plays)
b. Same stupid defensive player logic as in #3. Same result.

5) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1018#191327
a. Defense: Nickle 3 Deep Man Under (I checked my game plan and there are SIX different nickle coverages that my team can call during this situation, but only two plays are being repeated call because the matrix doesn't work)
b. Same defensive player logic as #1 and #2. The only reason that this doesn't go for 10 is that the safety engaged with WR manages to peal the block and somehow make a tackle.

6) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1018#191336
a. Defense: Nickle Normal Man Zone -Run Key
b. This one. This one pisses me off the most. I rarely call a two deep on 1-10, but this seems to be the right call against this play. And then this happens. The CB3 who is playing the short zone sprints to the middle AS SOON AS HE RECOGNIZES THE RUN. Seriously, the CB3 sits on his mark until the RB gets the ball, and then he runs away. The safety who is playing the deep zone on that side of the field also turns and runs to the middle of the field as soon as the RB gets the ball. THE REASON I KNOW THIS IS A PROBLEM WITH THE ZONE LOGIC is because the other safety playing deep hits his zone mark and immediately starts to pursue. So what it looks like is happen is that players playing zone MUST REACH the center of their zone BEFORE they do anything else. On this play, the CB3 should have recognized the play and pursued immediately. He's in Run Key so he should check the run before he drops regardless.

7) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1018#191337
a. What's the point. It's not like this will be fixed for 0.4.1 anyway. Another release of all M2M, Blitz Heavy defenses...
Last edited at 4/27/2017 7:24 am

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By setherick
4/29/2017 1:18 am
Zone defenders defending the run was better last game, but there is still a lot of bad play/glitchiness.

1) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194018
a. Watch 41, the WLB on the play. As soon as the RB gets the ball, he starts running away from the ball carrier. He doesn't run as far as before, but gives enough space for the RB to get 7.

2) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194020
a. See above. Same issue.

3) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194021
a. On this play, it's 53 that is running away from the running back as soon as he gets the ball.

4) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194026
a. On this play, watch number 99.

5) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194027
a. Priceless. It's the entire LB corps - 41, 93, and 96. No wonder LBs are useless.

6) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194036
a. Watch 41.

7) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194057
a. Watch 41, 37, and 93.

8) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194070
a. Watch the DBs freak out on this play.

9) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194071
a. Watch 41 and 93.

10) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194079
a. I thought this play was fine, but watch 92.

---

Zone defenders are also letting their man free in pass defense still: https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194094
Last edited at 4/29/2017 1:20 am

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By Ares
4/29/2017 1:50 am
DBs definitely follow routes longer on runs than they used to, but what really needs to be added is for WRs to block at the top of their route. As it is now, they just keep running endlessly (and uselessly) towards the end zone.

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By setherick
4/29/2017 6:30 am
This is another good game that shows why things haven't changed at all in v.0.4.1. My opponent repeated runs the same blitzes out of the normal defense and doesn't get penalized at all for them during the game. To make matters worse, I specifically scouted the blitzes being run: https://private75.myfootballnow.com/log/1033

Right now, players are getting penalized if they try to do different things on defense like run zone schemes. But double safety blitz all day? That'll dominate.

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By raymattison21
4/29/2017 6:48 am
Ares wrote:
DBs definitely follow routes longer on runs than they used to, but what really needs to be added is for WRs to block at the top of their route. As it is now, they just keep running endlessly (and uselessly) towards the end zone.


If they are not blocking it's cause they are selling a route. Dbs just don't bite alot. It is coded in both ways and distinguished by the play, but I am not totally sure that's what you are seeing