NOTICE: This league is using the BLEEDING EDGE game engine. For more information, click here.

The new user interface is in preview!

Want to check it out? Click here! (If you don't like it, you can still switch back)

League Forums

Main - Beta Chat

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By setherick
4/29/2017 11:28 am
More film review.

Here are more oddities with zone coverage. In general, defenders in M2M seem much more aware of the offensive players than defenders in zone. Offensive players beat zones a lot because the defender is too worried about playing the area of the zone rather than playing the player in the zone. Most of this is frustrating because a zone defense would work well to stop a lot of the more exploitive offensive plays (with slower defenders) once the logic is cleaned up. That said, I don't have an ideal zone team in 75.

1) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194022
a. I don't know if this is a bug or if the CB is still biting on the play fake (Run Key is on). Watch 32 the CB at the bottom of the screen. When he recognizes the pass, he runs right at the receiver. Then runs past the receiver and lets him make the catch.

2) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194042
a. Watch 66 on this play. Now 66 is a DT dropping into coverage, but in this case, it makes a lot of sense. He also has 61/73 zone coverage (why?). Anyway, on the snap, 66 drops into his zone. He's directly between the QB and the receiver that will score. Perfect position. When the ball is in the air, he should hold his position between the receiver and the QB, but instead he keeps dropping. This allows the WR to come back up in front and make the catch for the TD. That could have been a fat man INT.

3) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194077
a. I am in run key with this play, but it's obviously a pass by the time the zone breaks down. The RB finishes his route and cuts up field. He then streaks by all three defenders - they don't even recognize him - to get behind the zone. Seriously, one of those three should follow him deep. What this suggests to me is something that I have thought for a while. Defenders do not recognize players when they are free running routes. This is why plays like the hook plays and drag plays produce so many big plays. Defenders only seem to recognize a WR when he is actually running the designed route. As soon as he's free running, he becomes basically invisible to them. (Here's a weaker example from my team later: https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194121)

4) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194107
a. This isn't a break down of the zone defense. This is an example of amazingly bad tackling angles. Watch 41 who is playing the hook zone. As soon as the RB catches the ball, he starts running straight upfield with no chance to intercept. He continues to run upfield as the RB passes him and has to come back. 37 does the same from the safety position. Both of these players should have navigated around the WR that was blocking and cut the sideline off from the RB.
---

And some bugginess with one of the outside runs that I noticed.

1) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194031
a. The RB have a lane to the outside, but decides to cut it back to the inside for no reason.

2) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194075
a. Same play, same result. The RB doesn't have as good of a lane to the outside this time, but he has a better chance of beating the defender going outside than cutting back.

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
4/29/2017 2:39 pm
setherick wrote:
Zone defenders defending the run was better last game, but there is still a lot of bad play/glitchiness.


Just pushed a patch to fix the LB turning around when backpedaling. It was more of a glitch than a bug, but it should look more correct now.

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
4/29/2017 2:47 pm
Love the film review!

setherick wrote:
1) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194022
a. I don't know if this is a bug or if the CB is still biting on the play fake (Run Key is on). Watch 32 the CB at the bottom of the screen. When he recognizes the pass, he runs right at the receiver. Then runs past the receiver and lets him make the catch.


This was a CB trying to go for the INT and missing

setherick wrote:
2) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194042
a. Watch 66 on this play. Now 66 is a DT dropping into coverage, but in this case, it makes a lot of sense. He also has 61/73 zone coverage (why?). Anyway, on the snap, 66 drops into his zone. He's directly between the QB and the receiver that will score. Perfect position. When the ball is in the air, he should hold his position between the receiver and the QB, but instead he keeps dropping. This allows the WR to come back up in front and make the catch for the TD. That could have been a fat man INT.


I think he's running backwards and the receiver snuck up behind him, also partly might be a render artifacting too.

setherick wrote:
3) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194077
a. I am in run key with this play, but it's obviously a pass by the time the zone breaks down. The RB finishes his route and cuts up field. He then streaks by all three defenders - they don't even recognize him - to get behind the zone. Seriously, one of those three should follow him deep. What this suggests to me is something that I have thought for a while. Defenders do not recognize players when they are free running routes. This is why plays like the hook plays and drag plays produce so many big plays. Defenders only seem to recognize a WR when he is actually running the designed route. As soon as he's free running, he becomes basically invisible to them. (Here's a weaker example from my team later: https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194121)


I'll study this play more to see where the breakdown is

setherick wrote:
4) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194107
a. This isn't a break down of the zone defense. This is an example of amazingly bad tackling angles. Watch 41 who is playing the hook zone. As soon as the RB catches the ball, he starts running straight upfield with no chance to intercept. He continues to run upfield as the RB passes him and has to come back. 37 does the same from the safety position. Both of these players should have navigated around the WR that was blocking and cut the sideline off from the RB.


I'll study this one as well

setherick wrote:
1) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194031
a. The RB have a lane to the outside, but decides to cut it back to the inside for no reason.

2) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194075
a. Same play, same result. The RB doesn't have as good of a lane to the outside this time, but he has a better chance of beating the defender going outside than cutting back.


I have code to prevent this but apparently it is still happening. I'll look further into this one as well.

Again, thanks for the great film review - it is more helpful than you know.

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By setherick
4/29/2017 3:00 pm
Question on the zone coverage skill. Does it

A) determine how well the defender gets to his zone
B) determine how well the defender knows the boundaries of his zone
C) determine how well the defender recognizes an offensive player in his zone
D) determine how well the defender defends his zone
E) all of the above

I've been trying to figure out if punish or zone is more important for a zone defense. And if high zone coverage gives defenders the same boost that high M2M gives defenders in M2M cover.

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
5/01/2017 8:13 am
Basically it determines how well he stays in his zone, as well as how aware his is of players underneath him being beat. If he is in deep zone it determines whether he is aware of the deepest route.

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By setherick
5/01/2017 9:57 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
Basically it determines how well he stays in his zone, as well as how aware his is of players underneath him being beat. If he is in deep zone it determines whether he is aware of the deepest route.


Are there any additional modifiers to this? Intelligence? M2M Coverage?

For instance, when defending a player in his zone, does the defender use the M2M attribute?

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
5/01/2017 9:15 pm
setherick wrote:
1) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194031
a. The RB have a lane to the outside, but decides to cut it back to the inside for no reason.

2) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1033#194075
a. Same play, same result. The RB doesn't have as good of a lane to the outside this time, but he has a better chance of beating the defender going outside than cutting back.


Hotfix released to fix this issue. Took me a while to figure out why he was doing that.

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By Ares
5/02/2017 1:14 am
https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1057#198379

Both sides seem to be acting odd on this play. The second pull blocker should be heading down field to the second level. The defenders should be angling more towards the runner instead of just shuffling sideways.

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By Ares
5/02/2017 1:32 am
https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1057#198467

Where is the RB going on this play?

https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1057#198515

Pull blocker goes backwards inexplicably.

Punt returns are still going sideways. This needs to be hotfixed, it looks ridiculous.

Re: Version 0.4.1 RC 5

By setherick
5/02/2017 7:14 am
I saw fewer immediate things in the game film this time that I couldn't explain as being my own incompetence and not caring during preseason. This is good. Here is what have so far.

More general observations:

1) Run Key does not appear to work anymore. Repeatedly my opponents rip off big runs against my Run Key defenses.

2) Players running short routes don't appear to be free running downfield once they complete their routes. They appear to always come back to the QB. While this has greatly reduced the number of broken plays on short passes, it has made most short passes ineffective. I think the real root cause here is that the QB is still taking too long to make a decision. He should be releasing before a WR hits his mark as opposed to after the WR is done running his route.


Zone Observations

1) https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/1048#196898
a. The guy that gets burned on this play has really crappy zone coveage (37/45). Is this play a result of him being totally incompetent? Or is this a code problem with a DB not following a WR through his route?