New Sticky Note

NOTICE: This league is using the BLEEDING EDGE game engine. For more information, click here.

The new user interface is in preview!

Want to check it out? Click here! (If you don't like it, you can still switch back)

League Forums

Main - Beta Chat

Re: 0.4.4 - All the Problems

By Infinity on Trial
8/17/2018 9:58 pm
CrazyRazor wrote:
Infinity on Trial wrote:
Let me be more clear: A mild uptick in RB dumpoffs is a good thing, and unrelated to core problems with passing or coverage (or running). Irrelevant diatribes derailed a beta code that offered modest improvements and led to the total garbage that got deployed.


Mild uptick? In that game I posted, 11/27 completed passes were to RB's. That is not mild. I didn't have a problem with the increase in the previous code, but this is absurd. I'm certainly happy that a majority of GM's place 200 lb RB's with acceptional pass catch in the backfield.


I would be curious to hear from others on whether this is a concern, but first, show us a clip of a RB pass that shouldn't have been thrown.

Re: 0.4.4 - All the Problems

By setherick
8/17/2018 9:58 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
CrazyRazor wrote:
Is JDB gonna fix anything related to the passing game in this update? That's the main question I have. Based on what I've read, the answer is "No".


He didn't fix anything related to the passing game in the last update, either.


I'm not actually sure if the code that was released was the code we tested.

Re: 0.4.4 - All the Problems

By CrazyRazor
8/17/2018 10:07 pm
Sarcasm. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Well, apparently he isn't in this update either.

He adjusted how the QB cycled through his receivers. That much is obvious. Again, I am not opposed to dumpoffs. I'm opposed to it in excess. Just like I'm opposed to long passes being completed while short passes are dropped. Just like I'm opposed to zone coverage being garbage. Just like I'm opposed to excessive blitzing, whether it works or doesn't.

I was merely pointing out a noticable change that should be addressed at some point. Exactly the thing you guys are doing. I'll eventually figure out what you guys consider "issues" and what we are working towards here, but I don't appreciate my first post being addressed as a distraction, regardless. Understand?

Re: 0.4.4 - All the Problems

By Infinity on Trial
8/17/2018 10:54 pm
Where is the clip that shows the problem?

Poor accuracy ruining the game is a problem. A desire to throw 90+ percent to WRs is a preference. And stats are governed by play selection and gameplans and talent.
Last edited at 8/17/2018 11:06 pm

Re: 0.4.4 - All the Problems

By CrazyRazor
8/18/2018 3:21 am
Infinity on Trial wrote:
Where is the clip that shows the problem?

Poor accuracy ruining the game is a problem. A desire to throw 90+ percent to WRs is a preference. And stats are governed by play selection and gameplans and talent.


Excuse me for having to sleep.

https://nfl.myfootballnow.com/watch/1878#341260
https://nfl.myfootballnow.com/watch/1878#341282*
https://nfl.myfootballnow.com/watch/1878#341294*
https://nfl.myfootballnow.com/watch/1878#341317*
https://nfl.myfootballnow.com/watch/1878#341333*
https://nfl.myfootballnow.com/watch/1878#341361*
https://nfl.myfootballnow.com/watch/1878#341364*
https://nfl.myfootballnow.com/watch/1878#341367*
https://nfl.myfootballnow.com/watch/1878#341382*
https://nfl.myfootballnow.com/watch/1878#341394*
https://nfl.myfootballnow.com/watch/1878#341398*

Three passes are not included. They were streak routes out of the backfield and went for long gains. The asterisk is for passes that were either incompleted or had other receivers open/breaking open. (Mostly the latter)

As for hearing from others: ask Bryson10, mwd65, Smirt211, Big Poppa. I'm sure they would tell you there's been more than a mild uptick.
Last edited at 8/18/2018 3:37 am

Re: 0.4.4 - All the Problems

By Infinity on Trial
8/18/2018 9:24 am
We can disagree about whether 11 passes to a RB is a bad thing. Is that an outlier or your average?

Some of your film actually shows the QB is doing what you want him to do: Throw to the only viable option.



Other times, the clip is beside the point.

In this instance, you called PA Streaks (from the 30-yard-line?) and your WRs get jammed. Under pressure, you QB attempts to throw to the TE to avoid a sack. This highlights a number of problems, including play design, but RB targets isn't one of them.



I call this a distraction because you're basically asking JDB to manufacture changes to alter your stat sheet, rather than fix the way the game is played. A similar complaint about long passing led JDB to derail code that would have improved the game.
Last edited at 8/18/2018 9:25 am

Re: 0.4.4 - All the Problems

By CrazyRazor
8/18/2018 10:17 am
So you pick two plays out of eleven to prove your point? What about the ones with receivers open farther up field? Or are those the ones that are beside the point?
I'm at work. I'll look later to see if my QB passed to the RB 100% of the time when these plays were called or not, because that should not be the case.
I'm ultimately asking JDB to fix the progression reads of the QB & to fix recognition of open receivers. It's a problem. Perhaps the dumpoffs are simply a symptom

Re: 0.4.4 - All the Problems

By Infinity on Trial
8/18/2018 12:58 pm
I was too lazy to post a screen shot for every play.

On this play, the QB has a wide open receiver dragging on the back side, which he can't see because he's looking the opposite direction. On the strong side, the RB appears to be his best option.



For perspective, you're completing 6.7 passes per game to RBs in the league I looked at. That doesn't seem like a high number at all. That's up from 4 per game your previous season.

I get your point about QB progression, but I don't think that's the issue here. The problem is with coverage down the field. If anything, the slight increase in RB dumpoffs is a sign that JDB improved QB decision making, which we should give him credit for.
Last edited at 8/18/2018 12:59 pm

Re: 0.4.4 - All the Problems

By setherick
8/18/2018 1:02 pm
In DHF, my RBs and FBs have only caught 65 of my 234 passes this season (not counting the ones that Rogers has caught when he drops to the back field or Maldonado has caught doingthe same thing). I'm happy with that number, but I wish they would stop dropping open ones.

Point is. I generate yardage by dropping players to the backfield or throwing to my backs (and always have). I prefer the new code for getting it to the RB more.

What you have to watch is distance and routes now. Don't have the RB when you need more than X-yards.
Last edited at 8/18/2018 1:03 pm

Re: 0.4.4 - All the Problems

By CrazyRazor
8/18/2018 7:02 pm
I'll agree with everything you guys said about this up to this point. I'll even admit, that part of my game plan was to use the dumpoffs to compensate for the lack of a run game. Whether it's a slight uptick or not, most players noticed it. I know it goes deeper than the dumpoffs. Maybe it has something to do with the amount of time the QB spends making a decision whether a player is open or not.

Let's just try to approach things a little differently next time. I get riled easily.

I joined this league to try to help, not to make things worse. I know you guys are here for the same reason. Give me time to adapt to what we're doing here. All I have done in this game up to this point is played. I've never considered the ins and outs of it and what makes it work or how to resolve the issues.