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Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By raymattison21
6/06/2020 6:18 am
TarquinTheDark wrote:
I meant Wolfe kept Lutz under wraps, i.e. he wasn't getting penetration. With the other guys that did get through, timing could have been a factor.

Something about Wolfe and/or this version actually made him do his job against a classic punt blocker, while his teammates on the line struggled. That makes it worth looking at.



Yes, i have been noting the long snapper and the individual matchups of who gets completely blown by and by who. The only real pattern is weight/speed vs. weight/ speed there, but some other things are...

1. the position experience that player has on the STs depth chart and at the punt rushers individual positon in the overides...maybe they are the same score?

2. is acceleration, pass blocking/pass rushing, and strength as i dont think they make a huge difference when guys are fast enough

I only say these variables cause one user had a veteran db with 83 speed and 80 passs rush block a few in general leagues . He had plenty of experience but was not a 90s player. Those are my guys right now...they put plenty of pressure, but all are below 96 speed

Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By TarquinTheDark
6/07/2020 2:09 am
We can't see the ST experience for players on another team, so I have no idea of Wolfe's experience. (No ST plays tab on the player page, can't see the depth chart)

Here's the lineup I've been using this season. I don't believe I've messed with Rusher or Gunner weights in this league. This isn't specific to the punt return play, just the best we get for a general idea.

WLB Walter Erdmann
191# SP 87, Acc 72, PR 84
52 ST Rusher, 59/81.
100 Gunner, 81/85.

RE Ted Lutz
191#, SP 96, Acc 74, PR 25
100 ST Rusher exp, overall 47/52.
42 Gunner exp, overall 55/81.

RT Jorge Edwards
207#, SP 89, Acc 75, PR 57
100 ST Rusher, 62/65.
87 Gunner, 78/82.

LT Berry Noack
191#, SP 88, Acc 84, PR 41
34 ST Rusher, 37/59
15 Gunner, 39/71

LE Charles McGlothlin
191#, SP 89, Acc 77, PR 12
29 ST Rusher, 29/40
15 Gunner, 34/62

SLB Lee Reilly
191#, SP 89, Acc 60, PR 17
73 ST Rusher, 33/40
100 Gunner, 69/73

I'm going to try swapping Edwards and McGlothlin for a few games. Maybe we can see if 16 lbs. vs. position experience & pass rush makes a difference at LT.

Last edited at 6/07/2020 2:22 am

Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By raymattison21
6/11/2020 7:49 am
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/11501#2138292

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/11501#2138302

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/11501#2138314

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/11501#2138322

sub 70 long snapping and timing....the punter is in his second season and the rusher that came from RDT position had 91 speed and 93 acceleration at 198 pounds

Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By TarquinTheDark
6/13/2020 3:39 am
I don't understand what makes the results on this play so different from a FG attempt. I've been here over a year and a half, and only heard of two FG blocks. I've tried putting low-weight, high-speed guys on the FG block play vs. regular ST blockers on the FG side... they don't fly through the line ... so what is different in the code?

Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By raymattison21
6/13/2020 8:51 am
TarquinTheDark wrote:
I don't understand what makes the results on this play so different from a FG attempt. I've been here over a year and a half, and only heard of two FG blocks. I've tried putting low-weight, high-speed guys on the FG block play vs. regular ST blockers on the FG side... they don't fly through the line ... so what is different in the code?



The defenders attack point is 5 yards further back on the punt. Even when the QB is in shotgun the DEs pursiut angle is tight around 45 degrees same as against a FG.

When the punt team is pinned deep in their own endzone the rushers get through the less often cause of that intial angle. For some reason they pull up before a potenial block as well.

The FG senerio has all the blockers head up vs. the defenders...punt the DEs are lined up off the shoulder of the OT.....same as shotgun(at times)creating that same less expoiltable angle for the blocker.

This is blending into the pass blocking code and stats are revealing some theories. That DE/OT senerio is the secondary cause of this exploit after weight being too much of a thrust penalty on true speed.

Making this even harder to exploit on the punt makes it that much harder for DEs lining up like that to get pressure on the QB...thus making DTs sack leaders and Cs the worst pass blockers.

Why , cause they are only 283 pounds? I think lighter pass blockers have been devauled as well, but like i said its in theory only.

The timing thing has made a difference, but blocking change needs looking at.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By TarquinTheDark
6/13/2020 2:00 pm
On most teams I've had for a while, many Cs are actually converted from other line positions who happen to have a decent snapping score. I think part of the issue with Cs may be that many owners are valuing snapping too heavily in addition to the blocking skills, and using Cs who aren't top-notch blockers as a result.

I've experimented with converting most of my OLs to LG or C during the regular season - heavy enough to not get pushed too far, but lighter and faster for the extra speed and acceleration. I do my midweek training in other OL positions during preseason. I haven't noticed an increase in sacks, but my running game has definitely improved as more OLs are connecting for the lead blocks.

I also convert most DTs with decent speed to DEs (or even MLBs in some cases) for similar reasons. I've seen a small increase in sacks, but most of my teams do very well stopping the run. This all connects to Admiral's experiment, I can't wait to see his results - hopefully similar to some IoT results without the attitude.

One hypothesis based on your post, is that punt blockers are making LB style (off-shoulder) blitzes from close to the line, with the punt time giving them a chance to connect that they don't get on most plays. Another is that the angle explains why there is such a sweet spot for sacks, with the great majority going for -9 to -11 yards. When the QB drops back or scrambles to that point, the angle makes him easier to sack.
Last edited at 6/13/2020 2:23 pm

Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By Smirt211
6/13/2020 3:13 pm
I'll jump in for a second. When punt blocks got trapped off I decided to give the FB Block a shot to counterbalance the former being taken away. I've aligned the best possible scheme as there's about 3 spots which fly outward at a rapid pace but they straight line away from the opposing kicker out into blank space. I haven't come close to blocking a FG, however, I do believe that you can perfect it to alter long field goal attempts. At least introduce a barrier to the field goal attempt.


Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By TarquinTheDark
6/16/2020 5:03 am
3 more for Lutz last night.

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/11538#2146375
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/11538#2146410
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/11538#2146447

He was lined up across from RT Phillip Hull. 319#, 74 SP, 100 pass block. The outside man was TE Leonard Webb - he wound up with the help from Hull but didn't need it. Punter was Robbie Carlisle with 68 timing.
Last edited at 6/16/2020 10:46 am

Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By setherick
6/19/2020 10:23 pm
The problem with blocking is, has, and will always be that the OL does not move laterally on the snap to their assigned man. Instead, they move upfield or downfield depending on if the play is a run or a pass.

The biomechanics of blocking are also terribly broken. Most OL use their reach to their advantage by occupying as much space as possible. MFN OL make themselves skinny.

Plays like this do a good job of illustrating it: https://paydirt.myfootballnow.com/watch/4863#882650

It really should be hotfixed unless y'all don't mind that I have 58 sacks in USFL right now.
Last edited at 6/20/2020 12:13 am

Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By TarquinTheDark
6/20/2020 1:41 am
Don't sell yourself short, I count 73.