New Sticky Note

NOTICE: This league is using the BLEEDING EDGE game engine. For more information, click here.

The new user interface is in preview!

Want to check it out? Click here! (If you don't like it, you can still switch back)

League Forums

Main - General MFN Discussion

Re: State of the Game

By parsh
3/14/2019 6:11 am
tribewriter wrote:
Mcarovil wrote:
That’s always been an issue. Running a 3 yd pass play on 4th and 8. Playing the run and 3rd and 20. Terrible play calling in general. I believe that is why owners ha e lots of rules.

shauma_llama wrote:
I don't think anyone has to anticipate a heavy passing strategy, in one of my recent games the computer was pass keying from the beginning of the game, on both teams. The computer makes some strange keying decisions too. Several times I was run-keying on 3rd & 10. There's nothing in my Rules that would do that. That's the artificial "intelligence" there.


If you have a Rosters Only team, you know this to be true. The AI coaching decisions are horrifying.


At least we are all in the same boat!! lol

When an update change is made, there is always going to be backlash. then, you (or someone else) post in the forums a work around .. then its manageable. I think a lot of the issues in continuity is that the updates are more reactive to the workarounds than the game as whole.

I liken it to jdb halfway building a house, and were are discussing changing the wallpaper every week.

Re: State of the Game

By Smirt211
3/14/2019 6:21 am
I think a lot of the issues in continuity is that the updates are more reactive to the workarounds than the game as whole


Yes! The rapid fire introductions of versions 4.3 through 4.5 has exactly been that.

Hammer down the workarounds, get lost in the forest/wilderness of overall fixing the product.

Last edited at 3/14/2019 6:21 am

Re: State of the Game

By raymattison21
3/14/2019 6:50 am
Smirt211 wrote:
I think a lot of the issues in continuity is that the updates are more reactive to the workarounds than the game as whole


Yes! The rapid fire introductions of versions 4.3 through 4.5 has exactly been that.

Hammer down the workarounds, get lost in the forest/wilderness of overall fixing the product.



Not much has changed. Ares started this thread when LG 75 began and talks about only certain plays working. It was workarounds that code.

"Play/Formation Success Rate: As every vet of the sim with multiple teams knows, there are certain plays that always work, and certain plays/formations that will never work, no matter your personnel. You can have a hundred rated player at every position but you'll still struggle to succeed out of certain sets. This is a more challenging issue to solve, but it's a big one I feel. Not only does it severely disadvantage new players who don't know the 'correct' plays, but it also limits system diversity and play calling/personnel options"

Really a lot of his post sounds similar in complaints now seen I forums now . Too bad ares is gone. Speed has been put in check in some areas. In the big picture jdavidbakr is correcting based on user feedback . Master pieces take time, but lately changes have been faster and complete rewrites of some areas .

He will balance things out soon . But skill ratings matter more...that why I think this is a good change and we're heading the right direction . Not cause defenses are good or passing /qb are bad.

Re: State of the Game

By Smirt211
3/14/2019 7:33 am
What ARES said is accurate. It's a balancing act. PA/WR Streaks hitting over and over for long touchdowns would get boring fast without evolving the game. Therefore, you scale it back but allow it to be hit less frequently but possible based on defender involved and both sides of the ball scouting/play knowledge. (offensive play/defensive play)

You crop up new plays that work based on the skills being enhanced and allowed to have more effectiveness over speed such as TE Slots to toss a play out there. Blend the old with the new to make it more expansive while allowing defensive strategy mistakes to still get mashed (Flat Zones on Run Key per se against the aforementioned Streaks)

It is delicate because you don't want a system that protects GMs whom are out-game planned because certain plays won't hit for big strikes or get huge yardage any more due to over-correction changes but there was a need to open up the offensive playbook allowing the usage of more effective passing and running plays.


Re: State of the Game

By parsh
3/14/2019 12:40 pm
Used to hate playing against Ares and WarEagle .. Lol. I don't think I ever beat Ares. WarEagle a couple times. Lol

Re: State of the Game

By eyeballll
3/14/2019 3:58 pm
I really like 4.5. I think it is the best actual simulation of football yet. It has it's issues, but it's getting close to what football actually looks like, and that is the point I think...

Re: State of the Game

By shauma_llama
3/14/2019 11:24 pm
Guy Debord wrote:
[quote="shauma_llama"]
But then also something is missing in your rules that prevents that.


I have Rules that cover every situation, but no keying, all "neutral", the computer was acting on its own initiative there.

OK, pass keying on the 4 & 5 WR sets, but you can't run from those sets.
Last edited at 3/14/2019 11:25 pm

Re: State of the Game

By TarquinTheDark
3/15/2019 4:56 pm
eyeballll wrote:
I really like 4.5. I think it is the best actual simulation of football yet. It has it's issues, but it's getting close to what football actually looks like, and that is the point I think...


I respectfully disagree. It improves the simulation in some aspects, and harshly degrades it in others. More importantly, it is NOT FUN. It REQUIRES a strategy tailored to the simulation, as opposed to PICKING a strategy based on real life football and playing. I hope balance comes soon.

Some basic offensive strategies:
Option
Run and Shoot
Smashmouth
Air Coryell
Spread
West Coast
Pistol
Pro-style
Flexbone
Marty Ball

MAYBE three of these work effectively in this simulation as of 4.5.
Last edited at 3/15/2019 5:12 pm

Re: State of the Game

By Guy Debord
3/15/2019 5:12 pm
shauma_llama wrote:
Guy Debord wrote:
[quote="shauma_llama"]
But then also something is missing in your rules that prevents that.


I have Rules that cover every situation, but no keying, all "neutral", the computer was acting on its own initiative there.


Should not happen if you all have on 100% neutral. I for my part don't have this problem so far. The only cases the AI acts on theirself is if an opponent use one certain play to often (I think as of more than 3 times). Then the AI set the right key on this play every time the opponent use it for the rest of the game.

Re: State of the Game

By jgcruz
3/15/2019 6:16 pm
TarquinTheDark wrote:
eyeballll wrote:
I really like 4.5. I think it is the best actual simulation of football yet. It has it's issues, but it's getting close to what football actually looks like, and that is the point I think...


I respectfully disagree. It improves the simulation in some aspects, and harshly degrades it in others. More importantly, it is NOT FUN. It REQUIRES a strategy tailored to the simulation, as opposed to PICKING a strategy based on real life football and playing. I hope balance comes soon.

Some basic offensive strategies:
Option
Run and Shoot
Smashmouth
Air Coryell
Spread
West Coast
Pistol
Pro-style
Flexbone
Marty Ball

MAYBE three of these work effectively in this simulation as of 4.5.


No matter what version of the game we're using, and considering how long as I have been playing, I am still tinkering with how to deal with the definition of short, medium and long distance. Unless it's adjusted (and don't ask me the metrics for doing so), I think the definition of "medium" on 3rd down is between 3-10 yds to go. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) However, all things being equal, there's a world of difference between trying to gain 3 yds as opposed to 10 yds on a specific down and specifying in advance which plays to assign to this category. For example, trying to pick up 3 yds using a running play or a short pass is a lot easier to do than picking up 10 yds using those same plays.

I think the only way to deal with this is to have rules in effect which override the game - which is currently available and very useful. Or asking jdavid to insert additional down and distance situations into the game plan. But that might be asking too much at this juncture.

Anyway, I agree that it would be nice to have additional plays (and formations) available. I think (hope) that will come someday. Nevertheless, the game is still fun (and sometimes humbling and frustrating).