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Main - General MFN Discussion

Re: Injury Festival!

By vcr5150
9/10/2019 10:29 am
vcr5150 wrote:
Look at this, after 3 games this is my OL situation:




I dismissed Tarquin's comment about teams that did well the previous season seems to be hit hardest - now I'm starting to wonder if there is something to #ParityParanoia. This team won the league championship the previous season.


Well after week 12, the OL is in much better shape - but now the DL is in a bad way. Of the 10 DL on the roster, 4 are "healthy", 2 are "probable", 3 "questionable", and 1 "doubtful."

For the season, here are the number of injuries that occurred on a week by week basis:

Week #1 - 4 injuries
#2 - 7
#3 - 4
#4 - 5
#5 - 1
#6 - 6
#7 - 3
#8 - 2
#9 - 4
#10 - 4
#11 - 6

Seems like a pretty high rate.
Last edited at 9/10/2019 10:41 am

Re: Injury Festival!

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
9/10/2019 7:14 pm
vcr5150 wrote:
vcr5150 wrote:
Look at this, after 3 games this is my OL situation:




I dismissed Tarquin's comment about teams that did well the previous season seems to be hit hardest - now I'm starting to wonder if there is something to #ParityParanoia. This team won the league championship the previous season.


No, there is absolutely nothing in the injury code - or in any part of the game sim itself - that even considers the standings of a team. Team history or info is completely shielded from the game engine.

Re: Injury Festival!

By vcr5150
9/10/2019 7:28 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:

No, there is absolutely nothing in the injury code - or in any part of the game sim itself - that even considers the standings of a team. Team history or info is completely shielded from the game engine.


Thanks for addressing that - I really didn't think that would be the case, kind of a tongue in cheek comment. I think this is just one of those seasons that had injuries pile up. Thanks for the confirmation.

Re: Injury Festival!

By bgedgerly
9/11/2019 9:13 am
I've had fun reading all of this, but in all honesty, this was a ton of wasted time addressing something that is nowhere close to a big MFN problem. Individually, yes, it sucks, and I've had numerous teams derailed by injuries (And I always start probables, and feel absolute joy watching them all go doubtful at the same time a week later), and while I would like there to not be plays where 5-6 guys get hurt at once like I'm watching the Techmo Little Giants Super Bowl, there's only one complaint that I have with this game at this time, and there needs to be about 1000 pages of replies on it every thread until it's fixed....

The number one, and I mean number one, issue with this game right now is the idiotic AI in charge of teams without owners, and even more irritating, the AI in charge of drafting for teams that don't have a queue set. This is a literal league killing issue that needs to be fixed before anything else is even acknowledged as being a problem. Someone who has traded away players for picks and then has an internet outage/emergency on draft day now has a dead team that won't compete for a decade. Not even Al Davis could pull that off...

I will amend this post with this statement. Injuries kill seasons, bad AI kills leagues. I have lost 7 teams, I think, since this year started due to leagues dying, and almost all of those leagues died due to AI managers destroying teams and cutting superstars, which of course leads to stacked, unbeatable teams if managed by anyone with a modicum of competence. Almost every league that I am in now is a custom league run by someone who has time to put into it and keep them full. If those players like Bryson, Gustoon, and Cjfred leave MFN, this game is dead or will become a shell of itself. We need an AI in place that can keep MFN leagues going for the more casual players, and right now it is nowhere close to being up to the task.

As always, I appreciate JDB and everything he has done to help keep me from dying of boredom. I am not a game coder, nor can I even maintain a simple website, so I have no idea if what I'm asking is possible, but if it is, I know that it's not a simple fix. I love this game, and have a great deal of respect for many of the people here, and I just don't want to have to go back to depending on P2P phone app games to keep me entertained when I'm supposed to be working.
Last edited at 9/11/2019 9:30 am

Re: Injury Festival!

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
9/11/2019 11:45 am
bgedgerly wrote:
I've had fun reading all of this, but in all honesty, this was a ton of wasted time addressing something that is nowhere close to a big MFN problem. Individually, yes, it sucks, and I've had numerous teams derailed by injuries (And I always start probables, and feel absolute joy watching them all go doubtful at the same time a week later), and while I would like there to not be plays where 5-6 guys get hurt at once like I'm watching the Techmo Little Giants Super Bowl, there's only one complaint that I have with this game at this time, and there needs to be about 1000 pages of replies on it every thread until it's fixed....

The number one, and I mean number one, issue with this game right now is the idiotic AI in charge of teams without owners, and even more irritating, the AI in charge of drafting for teams that don't have a queue set. This is a literal league killing issue that needs to be fixed before anything else is even acknowledged as being a problem. Someone who has traded away players for picks and then has an internet outage/emergency on draft day now has a dead team that won't compete for a decade. Not even Al Davis could pull that off...

I will amend this post with this statement. Injuries kill seasons, bad AI kills leagues. I have lost 7 teams, I think, since this year started due to leagues dying, and almost all of those leagues died due to AI managers destroying teams and cutting superstars, which of course leads to stacked, unbeatable teams if managed by anyone with a modicum of competence. Almost every league that I am in now is a custom league run by someone who has time to put into it and keep them full. If those players like Bryson, Gustoon, and Cjfred leave MFN, this game is dead or will become a shell of itself. We need an AI in place that can keep MFN leagues going for the more casual players, and right now it is nowhere close to being up to the task.

As always, I appreciate JDB and everything he has done to help keep me from dying of boredom. I am not a game coder, nor can I even maintain a simple website, so I have no idea if what I'm asking is possible, but if it is, I know that it's not a simple fix. I love this game, and have a great deal of respect for many of the people here, and I just don't want to have to go back to depending on P2P phone app games to keep me entertained when I'm supposed to be working.


You get zero disagreement from me here ... and I'm definitely willing to listen to ideas about how to solve it. The biggest problem I've felt is that there is so much intuition involved that I've not been able to write an effective algorithm to make the AI smart enough. Maybe it would help to have a think tank type of group that can build a logic flow for the AI in various situations.

Re: Injury Festival!

By bgedgerly
9/11/2019 12:57 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
bgedgerly wrote:
I've had fun reading all of this, but in all honesty, this was a ton of wasted time addressing something that is nowhere close to a big MFN problem. Individually, yes, it sucks, and I've had numerous teams derailed by injuries (And I always start probables, and feel absolute joy watching them all go doubtful at the same time a week later), and while I would like there to not be plays where 5-6 guys get hurt at once like I'm watching the Techmo Little Giants Super Bowl, there's only one complaint that I have with this game at this time, and there needs to be about 1000 pages of replies on it every thread until it's fixed....

The number one, and I mean number one, issue with this game right now is the idiotic AI in charge of teams without owners, and even more irritating, the AI in charge of drafting for teams that don't have a queue set. This is a literal league killing issue that needs to be fixed before anything else is even acknowledged as being a problem. Someone who has traded away players for picks and then has an internet outage/emergency on draft day now has a dead team that won't compete for a decade. Not even Al Davis could pull that off...

I will amend this post with this statement. Injuries kill seasons, bad AI kills leagues. I have lost 7 teams, I think, since this year started due to leagues dying, and almost all of those leagues died due to AI managers destroying teams and cutting superstars, which of course leads to stacked, unbeatable teams if managed by anyone with a modicum of competence. Almost every league that I am in now is a custom league run by someone who has time to put into it and keep them full. If those players like Bryson, Gustoon, and Cjfred leave MFN, this game is dead or will become a shell of itself. We need an AI in place that can keep MFN leagues going for the more casual players, and right now it is nowhere close to being up to the task.

As always, I appreciate JDB and everything he has done to help keep me from dying of boredom. I am not a game coder, nor can I even maintain a simple website, so I have no idea if what I'm asking is possible, but if it is, I know that it's not a simple fix. I love this game, and have a great deal of respect for many of the people here, and I just don't want to have to go back to depending on P2P phone app games to keep me entertained when I'm supposed to be working.


You get zero disagreement from me here ... and I'm definitely willing to listen to ideas about how to solve it. The biggest problem I've felt is that there is so much intuition involved that I've not been able to write an effective algorithm to make the AI smart enough. Maybe it would help to have a think tank type of group that can build a logic flow for the AI in various situations.


I'm just thrilled that I got a reply from you. MOVING ON UP.

As far as the AI goes involving team management, I don't know how to fix that. I would say that if the team has the cap room/cash flow to re-sign all of the players/coaches at season's end based on their minimum salary demands then the AI will do so.

IE, if John Doe won't negotiate for a contract with less than a 5 million signing bonus, the computer re-signs him at the lowest contract price with a 5 million dollar signing bonus.

And if the team DOESN'T have the cap room to re-sign everyone, the AI would prioritize based on highest rated players (per default ratings) to lowest. So if the team in question had a 93 rated player and a 72 rated player, but only the money to re-sign the 93, that player would get re-signed and the 72 would be left to free agency.

I don't know what kind of coding cost it would require, or if its possible, to have the AI make decisions based on age (Don't re-sign Year 11 players to 6 year contracts), but I think an age based system on top of a salary cap triage system would be ideal, because the dead money caused by early retirements is a big reason behind AI team cap issues, although admittedly, a lot of actual players deal with this issue as well.

Coach hiring would just be whoever the AI could afford to hire to stay under cash flow cap, maybe based on average salaries league wide, or just sign whoever is available before training camp. I honestly don't have much of an opinion on coaches, other than to have the AI not hire a QB Coach for 99% of cash flow.

BUT, as far as the draft goes, my idea would be that the AI drafts the best player available based on position of need (PON). It already handles PON pretty well, it just really craps its pants when it comes to actual talent. So if a team has 13 OL and 2 WR, the AI should be designed to draft the best WR before it drafts the best OL. And so on. And, just to make it easier (I'm guessing), just write drafting punters and kickers out of the AI code altogether. If it's an AI controlled team, the K and P positions can be filled with the 34545432 free agents. That way, if a real person comes to take over a team that the AI drafted for a few years, there's a better chance of that player contending if the AI was at least trying to take players based on value. Volatility really shouldn't factor in, just to make it simpler. If they bust, they bust, but there's no chance of success if the AI drafts 3 RBs rated 37 overall with 40 speed.

So, to wrap up, this is my ideal AI position:

1. Re-sign players to contracts as small as possible based on player demands.
2. Prioritize re-signing players with higher default rankings.
3. Prioritize re-signing younger players over older players.
4. Be as frugal as possible with both player and coach contracts. Saving money should be the biggest priority for AI controlled teams.
5. No drafting K or P.
6. Prioritize drafting based on best player available (according to default ratings, disregarding volatility).
7. Secondary drafting priority is PON.

If any of this isn't possible, or if anyone thinks any of this is stupid, feel free to let me know. But if these concepts are reasonable then I think MFN in general will be a much healthier community with them in place.

Thanks again for everything JDB.
Last edited at 9/11/2019 1:19 pm

Re: Injury Festival!

By punisher
9/11/2019 4:00 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
Maybe it would help to have a think tank type of group that can build a logic flow for the AI in various situations.


Well maybe CrazySexyBeast can make one for this too knowing he made a think tank

here = https://atrealnfl.myfootballnow.com/community/1/5887?page=1#36017