New Sticky Note

NOTICE: This league is using the BLEEDING EDGE game engine. For more information, click here.

League Forums

Main - Beta Chat

Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By raymattison21
7/05/2020 9:12 am
Also, a couple of punt blocks vs. a 68 timing punter.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By TarquinTheDark
7/07/2020 11:38 am
raymattison21 wrote:
Really, the 4-6 heavy front has aligment issues somewhere that confuses the who to block recognition...seth might have more accurate info, but this is now the primary focus of my testing.


I've had some time to review the logs & footage. It seems to be isolated to one position.

Play: 4-6 Heavy 2 Deep Man Under
Playbooks: Run Focused, Heavy Blitzing
Issue: On any passing play, the LDE is not blocked by any offensive player, and proceeds to the QB unimpeded. Offensive formation, Run/Pass key, and the designated LDE's assigned position/weight have no effect on this issue. Lighter & faster OOP players at this position merely sack the QB faster.

Setherick, please correct me if any of this is wrong, or if you have additional info.

I'm not saying that pass blocking as a whole doesn't need further attention. I hope this issue provides an opportunity to do just that, and that the fix will also alleviate other issues (like PBs).
Last edited at 7/07/2020 11:50 am

Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By Smirt211
7/07/2020 11:52 am
Yeah, this has been batted around ad nauseam in the USFL forum.

You've pinpointed the issue. Unblocked defender whom is too busy performing a pirouette with a back to the play than performing his one task: blocking.

Any wiggle room in an offensive play which would allow for a sack happens IF a speed dominant, pass rush skilled defender is slotted in the opposing spot.
Last edited at 7/07/2020 11:53 am

Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By raymattison21
7/07/2020 12:12 pm
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/11654#2173995

Different things happen each play set vs. play set. The rollout here could have been a ten yrd run gain.

Clearly, problem one is the pre snap alignments combined with who blocks who.

Almost same as the punt play the LDE is off the inside shoulder of the RT here(too far for him to get over quick enough) where the punt is outside the tackles shoulder.

Both have the angle of advantage for attack. Speed will kill..95 spd 89sp and 87spd players wizz through often. My 56 speed 276 pound player did not...

Sometimes....pre play overuse penalties the Tackle gets over and stops them Later in the game its a mess. And alot of the time the small DE gets through and tries covering the RB when he should have B lined for the QB...thats lowering the plays effectiveness....with an additional bug as all recievers are accounted for.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By TarquinTheDark
7/07/2020 1:02 pm
Smirt211 wrote:
Yeah, this has been batted around ad nauseam in the USFL forum.


Very interesting reads over there.

Admin-who-shall-not-be-named attacking setherick, after seth downloaded so much knowledge to IoT?!?

IoT attacking Greg, after Greg gave Admin-who-shall-not-be-named all those likes to his posts in Champions?!? (and previously a bunch to IoT himself when IoT came at me in the main forum)

IoT and Admin-who-shall-not-be-named having a little spat over the use of broken plays and broken players?!?

Admin-who-shall not-be-named talking about people "quitting" his leagues?!?

I probably shouldn't point any of that out, it will just unify them against the common PE#1 again ... but, LOL, such drama!!!

Oh yeah, and a bunch of very interesting data and analysis from setherick along the way. :)
Last edited at 7/07/2020 1:15 pm

Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By raymattison21
7/09/2020 12:10 pm
Some final thoughts on the season ....

This is almost as bad as the long passing days. Leagues are putting limits on the 46 but small rushers are just to good at both the run defense and pass rushing.

We should have been blown off the ball even more last game, but the DBs on the line held there own. The 87 speed WLB at LDE took on an injury on the first pass play(where he decided to cover the RB instead of go for a sack) .Playing the rest of the game at 79 speed resulted in only 2 sacks and 2 hurries.

Still, too high....3 points allowed in 4 games on one play. Alot of code segments are at work here but a few need revising...

1. Speed formulas. The weight of a player slows one down too much. Essentially everyone oover 237 pounds is way too slow.

2. If pass blocking is so tied to the speed formulas then that part should be adjusted.

3. QBs should be more willling to run the ball

4. The strength of a player should be more tied to a players weight.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 85f6023a

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
7/09/2020 9:24 pm
TarquinTheDark wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
Really, the 4-6 heavy front has aligment issues somewhere that confuses the who to block recognition...seth might have more accurate info, but this is now the primary focus of my testing.


I've had some time to review the logs & footage. It seems to be isolated to one position.

Play: 4-6 Heavy 2 Deep Man Under
Playbooks: Run Focused, Heavy Blitzing
Issue: On any passing play, the LDE is not blocked by any offensive player, and proceeds to the QB unimpeded. Offensive formation, Run/Pass key, and the designated LDE's assigned position/weight have no effect on this issue. Lighter & faster OOP players at this position merely sack the QB faster.

Setherick, please correct me if any of this is wrong, or if you have additional info.

I'm not saying that pass blocking as a whole doesn't need further attention. I hope this issue provides an opportunity to do just that, and that the fix will also alleviate other issues (like PBs).


This was super helpful - specific examples of where you see an issue definitely are key to helping isolate the cause. I have identified what is causing this and am going to push a patch to the beta engine.

I am also going to roll the items that will not go into the 0.4.6 release out of beta, so we can run a season with what will be in 0.4.6. Basically, what is removed is the updates to zone coverage and update passing decision logic. I'm keeping the relative speed changes. I'll post a new sticky thread.