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Re: Play overuse, testing, and other comments

By Ares
9/22/2017 1:14 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
The biggest impact for M2M skill is an opposition to a WR's route running skill. When a WR makes a cut, the sharpness of the cut in determined by his route running skill, and the ability of the DB to cut with him is determined by the M2M skill. On fly routes the M2M skill and route running skill are not really used, in those cases it does boil down to speed.


If this is the case, can we have some plays added with double moves, stutters, something to allow more of a benefit for skilled WRs on deep routes? Or have skilled WRs automatically add those into routes? The higher the skill, the more likely the WR is to try a stutter/head fake/whatever on a route that might make the DB bite down on a go route or in the wrong direction on a cut. This would be opposed, naturally, by M2M. Edited to add: This would also make accel more important for DBs in M2M, to help recover from getting juked. Man to man is HARD in the NFL, which is why it's rare for a team to leave any or all its DBs exclusively in it. The more skills needed to be an 'island' DB the better, imo.

Also, DBs who are slower than the WR they're assigned to should compensate (esp. on pass key and obvious passing downs) and maintain a deeper cushion on WRs when they don't have help over-top. This would prevent constant blown coverage versus fast WRs on go routes, while encouraging players to then take advantage of the cushion for shorter throws. On defense, it would encourage users to lean on more deep zones to protect themselves. Also, as an addendum to this, come-back routes need to have the QB throw in anticipation, or have the WR hold their spot... something, 'cause right now they just run full speed back towards the LOS. Would love to be able to use those 'cause it cuts out a huge portion of the playbook currently, and in conjunction with the above proposal would be super successful against a DB worried about getting burned on a deep throw to a speedy WR.

setherick wrote:
...defensive plays that don't blitz can't be flagged for overuse penalties? That would stop people from having to blitz every down and help defensive game planning against the pass.


+1. I'd love to be able to call fewer blitzes without always pulling overuse penalties.
Last edited at 9/22/2017 1:17 am

Re: Play overuse, testing, and other comments

By WarEagle
9/22/2017 5:49 am
Ares wrote:

If this is the case, can we have some plays added ...


I don't believe there have been any new plays added since prior to 2014, probably longer. I've asked before when the last new play was added and did not receive a response. My guess is probably never.

setherick wrote:
...defensive plays that don't blitz can't be flagged for overuse penalties? That would stop people from having to blitz every down and help defensive game planning against the pass.


+1

Re: Play overuse, testing, and other comments

By setherick
9/22/2017 11:10 pm
And weights updated and published: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/community/3/2443?page=5&x=wA4D5Ll0tZ#24401

Re: Play overuse, testing, and other comments

By raymattison21
9/24/2017 9:38 am
I would like to take the overuse penalty out. I think I have had enough. It just seem like an exploit . Also, I feel it is players speed that makes blitzes so effective in the first place .

The best plays are still the best plays . Just make hot reads better. Make the qb quickly find the open guy. All this effort....it could have been solved with some new plays.

Re: Play overuse, testing, and other comments

By WarEagle
9/24/2017 6:21 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
I would like to take the overuse penalty out.


-1

Re: Play overuse, testing, and other comments

By raymattison21
9/24/2017 8:09 pm
WarEagle wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
I would like to take the overuse penalty out.


-1



A decent leagues last super bowl combined to have blitzers coming over 70 percent of the time. As well as a total seven skill postion players that had less than 70 speed. Is that the magic numbers.....if that is the over use penalty working I still think it has to be harsher.

Re: Play overuse, testing, and other comments

By setherick
9/24/2017 8:13 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
I would like to take the overuse penalty out.


-1



A decent leagues last super bowl combined to have blitzers coming over 70 percent of the time. As well as a total seven skill postion players that had less than 70 speed. Is that the magic numbers.....if that is the over use penalty working I still think it has to be harsher.


Was that the epic 12-6 game that Cincy and I played?

Re: Play overuse, testing, and other comments

By raymattison21
9/24/2017 8:27 pm
setherick wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
I would like to take the overuse penalty out.


-1



A decent leagues last super bowl combined to have blitzers coming over 70 percent of the time. As well as a total seven skill postion players that had less than 70 speed. Is that the magic numbers.....if that is the over use penalty working I still think it has to be harsher.


Was that the epic 12-6 game that Cincy and I played?


That funny! Your game looks to have had blitzes called 67 percent of the time. Also, your guys teams are a bit slower. This was the fans leagues I was citing . Both great games but I wonder how many other big games follow similar patterns. 99 percent won under 4.0 and the suitable blitz setting is 70? I guess it is better than before.

Re: Play overuse, testing, and other comments

By setherick
12/23/2017 9:17 am
Play overuse is a joke. We should just do away with it since it doesn't work. Last game in 87, my opponent called the 4-3 Double Safety Blitz 20 times against me, was only flagged for overuse once, and only gave up 48 yards against those plays. He may have done better all game if he would have only called that play: https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/log/1103

What's the point of overuse again? Other than switching the keying on defense (advantage defense), it doesn't do anything.

OffensivePlay DefensivePlay YardsGained
Strong I Normal Short Attack 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz 15
Weak I Normal HB Inside Strong 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz 4
I Formation Normal PA Fullback Flat 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz 7
I Formation Twin WR HB Toss Strong 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz -1
I Formation Normal HB Toss Strong 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz -3
Strong I Normal Counter Strong 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz -1
Strong I Normal Counter Strong 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz 1
Singleback Big HB Curls TE Deep 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz 11
I Formation Twin WR HB Toss Strong 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz -3
Strong I Normal Counter Strong 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz
I Formation Normal Cross In 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz 18
Strong I Normal Short Attack 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz
Singleback Big HB Curls TE Deep 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz -0
I Formation Normal PA Fullback Flat 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz
Strong I Normal Counter Strong 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz -2
I Formation Normal Cross In 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz
Singleback Big Waggle Post 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz 13
Weak I Normal HB Inside Strong 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz 2
I Formation Twin WR HB Toss Strong 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz -3
Singleback Big TE Flat Curl 4-3 Normal Double Safety Blitz -10
Total 48

Re: Play overuse, testing, and other comments

By setherick
12/30/2017 11:06 am
Another reason why I think the current iteration of play overuse should be scrapped is because it values players that run all the plays, which means a lot more blitzing, and penalizes players that want to stay in a base defense. For instance, a 4-3 M2M base defense would have the safeties in Cover 1 or Cover 2, the LBs in M2M on the RBs and TE or TEs or WR3, and the CBs M2M on the WRs, and this would be similar for the 3-4 or the Nickle or the Dime. The problem with this is there are maybe 1 or 2 of these base defensive plays IN ANY PLAYBOOK, so if I want to run a base defense, I am already at a disadvantage (I'm pretty sure I've pointed this out before). So I'm forced to use more plays, and since most of the other plays are blitzes, I blitz more, and since blitzes destroy everything, then my defense looks great. In reality, though, I'm running a completely unrealistic defense that is vulnerable beyond belief since if I have one slow player my opponent will rack up several long TDs at which point, I might as well re-install an NES emulator and breakout TSB.
Last edited at 12/30/2017 11:06 am