NOTICE: This league is using the BLEEDING EDGE game engine. For more information, click here.

The new user interface is in preview!

Want to check it out? Click here! (If you don't like it, you can still switch back)

League Forums

Main - Beta Chat

Re: Opinions on play overuse penalty and audibles

By Ares
3/17/2017 3:44 pm
I personally prefer incremental change to large dumps. It's much easier to troubleshoot and fine tune, as opposed to trying to figure out the culprit for why X is misbehaving when a dozen massive overhauls have all occurred at once. I'm also still not 100% certain I like the audible system as the answer to blitz overuse, but I definitely want all the other updates in as quick as possible.

jdavidbakr wrote:
For review, here's what has been added here that's not yet available to the other leagues:

* QB accuracy updates
* Pass blocking updates
* Zone and Man coverage updates
* Blocking taking weight into account
* Waiver wire
* Overuse penalty (that's the topic at hand here, it's still being applied but it was toned down from last season where a lot of you said it was too much)
* Player contract offer inflation
* Rules able to be sorted, and the first rule to hit is the only rule that fires
* Sacks are now getting a tackle stat as well


Was there also a change to run blocking, or is that strictly being addressed via the weight factor? Also, weren't pursuit angles on tackling addressed with this new engine?

By which I mean (non-bleeding edge example):

https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/916#172483

Wherein both LBs seem to be targeting the RB's initial trajectory when he first caught the ball, and don't adjust to the RB's new angle until they've gone past him.

I had thought this was on the docket for resolution with the bleeding edge engine, but didn't see it listed so thought I'd ask.

On kick-offs:

One issue is the three furthest back blockers are too frequently non-factors. They tend to do one of two things, either a) they peel off to the sides and the returner gets nailed down the center, or b) they lag behind the returner.

A fix might be to implement (at least) three kick return plays. 1) Return right, 2) Return left, 3) Return center. Based off what's called, the back blockers will peel in a set direction, and the returner will favor returning it behind them. The back blackers won't need to deliberate on what to do, thus (hopefully) preventing them from ending up behind the returner.

Otherwise keep them a little more center and make them more aggressive moving forward to keep ahead of the returner.

On punts:

Wing blockers almost never even begin to engage with the punting team's gunners.

Two possible solutions: a) Have them backpeddle and cushion before attempting to engage their block, or b) Implement a new blocking technique specifically for gunner interactions (if this isn't already the case), since it is a different type of blocking. Gunners don't get squared and stood up, but rather are bumped and directed. So have the wing blockers run with the gunner and have it checked throughout the pursuit. "Wins" by one of the blockers will slow and/or push the gunner towards the sideline. "Wins" by the gunner will slow the blocker. If X distance is achieved by the gunner from the blocker(s) then no further checks will be made until they've closed the distance. Once the returner has fielded the ball and begun his return, blocking will return to standard for the wing blockers (i.e. attempting to square and stand up the pursuit team).

Additional "minor" fixes I'd like to see for the next engine:

Teleportation fumbles:

https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/916#172482
https://private75.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/916#172598

In addition to slurping up the ball from yards away, the RBs don't seem to lose any momentum doing so.

Weight change:

Since weight will now be (more) important, I'd like to see the weight gain/loss formula tinkered with. Players should shift weight rather incrementally during season play, but much more aggressively during all 'off-season' spins (pre-training camp), with the biggest boosts happening on the end of season and training camp spins. The amount gained/lost should be influenced by the player's discipline and how far they are from their 'ideal' weight (whatever they were initially gen'd with, or are at currently once this code is officially implemented).

Re: Opinions on play overuse penalty and audibles

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
3/17/2017 4:28 pm
Yes, I didn't include it in the list but the LB now moves more laterally with the RB. That also has a tweak in testing right now.

Re: Opinions on play overuse penalty and audibles

By Beercloud
3/17/2017 10:20 pm
are blitzing players taking a fatigue hit?

Maybe that could be toyed with to balance out the blitzes as well as making non blitzing plays better in some situations.

Season long fatigue on players could play a role as well. So for example, heavy blitzing every game will have a toll on those players blitzing down the line. Or O-line, D-line and RB's on excessive run offenses etc...

Doesn't always mean more injuries but maybe just slows em down or weaken em a bit gradually. Something to that effect.

Re: Opinions on play overuse penalty and audibles

By big_guido1983
3/18/2017 12:42 am
I think we need more tweaks done to blitzing, man/zone coverages before pushing the update to the other leagues. There should've been better defense on the td plays in my last game against Denver.

Re: Opinions on play overuse penalty and audibles

By Black Adder
3/18/2017 5:47 am
Weight change:

"Since weight will now be (more) important, I'd like to see the weight gain/loss formula tinkered with. Players should shift weight rather incrementally during season play, but much more aggressively during all 'off-season' spins (pre-training camp), with the biggest boosts happening on the end of season and training camp spins. The amount gained/lost should be influenced by the player's discipline and how far they are from their 'ideal' weight (whatever they were initially gen'd with, or are at currently once this code is officially implemented)."


This is a excellent suggestion Ares,players just don`t gain/loose weight fast enough.

My FB to LT project has gained 8 lb`s since being drafted in 2030,thats maybe 15 months real time.

The main problem with play familiarity is a few plays are just too strong.

The Double Inside Blitz plays with PASS Keyed ,clog up the middle so stop the IR`s and Pass key helps the DB`s in pass coverage if there`s a pass.

As for DB`s making all the tackles,my view is that in the NFL once a RB gets the hand off he can do lots of things (reverse,toss reverse,toss back to QB,throw the ball etc).in MFN once the RB has the ball he runs with the ball.

The DB`s who are covering WR`s running SP routes leave their M2M/Zone Coverage and sprint to the RB and make the tackle if the LB`s havent (which is often).

If they didn`t do this I feel the running game would once again be too powerful as it seems about right now.

Just my 50p`s worth.

Re: Opinions on play overuse penalty and audibles

By raymattison21
3/18/2017 9:21 am




* QB accuracy updates......C, for some reason my 87 accuracy QB misses short wide open guys, but 99 accuracy seem to increase catch overs by the wr.

* Pass blocking updates.....B if you count last game only, but before that is a D.

* Zone and Man coverage updates........B for DBS and D for LBs .

* Blocking taking weight into account........C grade as we can still run /stop the run despite a small blockers and defenders.

* Waiver wire...IC grade, I like it but never sign FAs.

* Overuse penalty (that's the topic at hand here, it's still being applied but it was toned down from last season where a lot of you said it was too much).......D grade. wars blitzes worked to perfection . Guys B lined it to ball carrier and my 56 intelligence QB could find a blitz read. Also, my plans use plays only 5 times mostly every game.

* Player contract offer inflation......lC grade. As I have never had to make a hard decision. Maybe next season.

* Rules able to be sorted, and the first rule to hit is the only rule that fires....IC grade....as I don't use any rules.

* Sacks are now getting a tackle stat as well...A grade. Enough said.

Still on my to-do list:
* I'm still trying to figure out why DBs are getting more tackles than LBs.......IDK if a team runs I get tackles with my MLB. DBS get tackles in the passing game, but why have LBS cover if they cant Cover. I think it was week one my LB made some tackles in the passing game. Also, at least 30 % of runs my LBs run the wrong way, but on a FB counter if the LB/DB is on a blitz he will not bite on the fake to the RB....just B line it to the FL

* Still trying to figure out why the punt/kick return TDs have gone to zero.......the effect of weight has something to do with it.....my 100 speed players are all Don Beebe even if they are a 245 TE. Using Frame will help.

In general I feel you can do no wrong . The last code was fun to play under.IMO. I think this will be better.

Re: Opinions on play overuse penalty and audibles

By Ares
3/18/2017 3:08 pm
Black Adder wrote:

The DB`s who are covering WR`s running SP routes leave their M2M/Zone Coverage and sprint to the RB and make the tackle if the LB`s havent (which is often).


This reminds me of something else that I had meant to include in my post:

DB Awareness:

As it stands, DBs are far too aware. The second the ball is thrown, they all bee line to its destination, sometimes resulting in four+ DBs all crowding over a lone WR. On runs, they almost immediately break from their coverage to pursue the ball carrier. I've brought this issue up before in regards to the failure of outside runs that have WRs running routes instead of blocking, because DBs never follow their assignment but immediately twist around to pursue the ball carrier. There should be some kind of 'head check' code to determine whether a DB is even capable of watching the play, or if they're just zeroed in on their assignment. Safeties tend to have more cushion, so should frequently be able to diagnose and attack the run, but most DBs will either have their back turned in man coverage, or won't quit their zone assignment for the reasons Black Adder brought up (trick plays). For the latter, a check could be run with intelligence/experience/play knowledge (with a massive bonus for keying correctly or not) to determine how fast they identify the offense's play and react to it correctly. Of course, once the ball carrier passes the line of scrimmage, so long as he's in the DBs line of sight, all bets should then be off.

Re: Opinions on play overuse penalty and audibles

By RLWJR
3/18/2017 3:27 pm
raymattison21 wrote:




* QB accuracy updates......C, for some reason my 87 accuracy QB misses short wide open guys, but 99 accuracy seem to increase catch overs by the wr.

* Pass blocking updates.....B if you count last game only, but before that is a D.

* Zone and Man coverage updates........B for DBS and D for LBs .

* Blocking taking weight into account........C grade as we can still run /stop the run despite a small blockers and defenders.

* Waiver wire...IC grade, I like it but never sign FAs.

* Overuse penalty (that's the topic at hand here, it's still being applied but it was toned down from last season where a lot of you said it was too much).......D grade. wars blitzes worked to perfection . Guys B lined it to ball carrier and my 56 intelligence QB could find a blitz read. Also, my plans use plays only 5 times mostly every game.

* Player contract offer inflation......lC grade. As I have never had to make a hard decision. Maybe next season.

* Rules able to be sorted, and the first rule to hit is the only rule that fires....IC grade....as I don't use any rules.

* Sacks are now getting a tackle stat as well...A grade. Enough said.

Still on my to-do list:
* I'm still trying to figure out why DBs are getting more tackles than LBs.......IDK if a team runs I get tackles with my MLB. DBS get tackles in the passing game, but why have LBS cover if they cant Cover. I think it was week one my LB made some tackles in the passing game. Also, at least 30 % of runs my LBs run the wrong way, but on a FB counter if the LB/DB is on a blitz he will not bite on the fake to the RB....just B line it to the FL

* Still trying to figure out why the punt/kick return TDs have gone to zero.......the effect of weight has something to do with it.....my 100 speed players are all Don Beebe even if they are a 245 TE. Using Frame will help.

In general I feel you can do no wrong . The last code was fun to play under.IMO. I think this will be better.


I'm just wondering, do you ever read your posts before you hit the submit button? I would love to know what you are talking about, since you seem very passionate about helping the game, but for the life of me, I rarely can understand a **** thing you are saying.........

Re: Opinions on play overuse penalty and audibles

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
3/18/2017 3:38 pm
Ares wrote:
Black Adder wrote:

The DB`s who are covering WR`s running SP routes leave their M2M/Zone Coverage and sprint to the RB and make the tackle if the LB`s havent (which is often).


This reminds me of something else that I had meant to include in my post:

DB Awareness:

As it stands, DBs are far too aware. The second the ball is thrown, they all bee line to its destination, sometimes resulting in four+ DBs all crowding over a lone WR. On runs, they almost immediately break from their coverage to pursue the ball carrier. I've brought this issue up before in regards to the failure of outside runs that have WRs running routes instead of blocking, because DBs never follow their assignment but immediately twist around to pursue the ball carrier. There should be some kind of 'head check' code to determine whether a DB is even capable of watching the play, or if they're just zeroed in on their assignment. Safeties tend to have more cushion, so should frequently be able to diagnose and attack the run, but most DBs will either have their back turned in man coverage, or won't quit their zone assignment for the reasons Black Adder brought up (trick plays). For the latter, a check could be run with intelligence/experience/play knowledge (with a massive bonus for keying correctly or not) to determine how fast they identify the offense's play and react to it correctly. Of course, once the ball carrier passes the line of scrimmage, so long as he's in the DBs line of sight, all bets should then be off.


In the RC 1 code one of the changes I pushed today slows down the DB response on the running back if they are in man-to-man coverage. But you're probably right, I need to look at this for the pass code as well.

Re: Opinions on play overuse penalty and audibles

By blackflys
3/18/2017 9:05 pm
The progress is definitely getting better . The only things I see is individual stats,, were seven games in and 6-8 Qbs are on pace for 50+ TD 1 is on pace for 68. There's six WRs on pace for close to 2000 yards and the real shocking one is interceptions individually on defense. I think it goes 8,6,5,5,5,5,4. That's unreal to say the least. Other then that the gameplay looks good.