New Sticky Note

NOTICE: This league is using the BLEEDING EDGE game engine. For more information, click here.

League Forums

Main - Beta Chat

[0.4.6] Version 1792c8b1

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
12/12/2020 11:49 am
Made some tweaks that I hope make long passing work again: deeper drop for the QB and the blocks are also held longer. Also increased the base probability for a catch, which I hope will reduce (but not eliminate) the wide-open drops.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 1792c8b1

By setherick
12/12/2020 12:40 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
Made some tweaks that I hope make long passing work again: deeper drop for the QB and the blocks are also held longer. Also increased the base probability for a catch, which I hope will reduce (but not eliminate) the wide-open drops.


Unless WRs get real separation and can accelerate away from DBs, I suspect that this will just mean more sacks for more sack yardage. QBs were able to hold the ball for up to 3 seconds before this change. The problems was that WRs were not getting separation and, thus, moving slower than the DL in the same amount of time.

In comparison, an NFL WR explodes off the line, travels 10 yards in 1 second and completes a 25 yard route in < 3.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 1792c8b1

By setherick
12/14/2020 12:44 am
I have no words: https://lol.myfootballnow.com/box/2259

This is the start of the series that shows just how bad this is: https://lol.myfootballnow.com/watch/2259#396822

3 plays, 3 times the DL explodes past the OL and the WRs (THAT ARE FASTER) can't get down field.
Last edited at 12/14/2020 12:48 am

Re: [0.4.6] Version 1792c8b1

By raymattison21
12/14/2020 7:07 am
https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/716#128277

Re: [0.4.6] Version 1792c8b1

By raymattison21
12/14/2020 7:12 am
raymattison21 wrote:
https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/716#128277


Coverage is tight in general but here a blitz called 3 times making a better dB look bad. Real bad. What did he do here?

Re: [0.4.6] Version 1792c8b1

By raymattison21
12/14/2020 7:14 am
setherick wrote:
I have no words: https://lol.myfootballnow.com/box/2259

This is the start of the series that shows just how bad this is: https://lol.myfootballnow.com/watch/2259#396822

3 plays, 3 times the DL explodes past the OL and the WRs (THAT ARE FASTER) can't get down field.



Some how sacks are worse and the TE1 and WR3 are now getting more targets

Re: [0.4.6] Version 1792c8b1

By setherick
12/14/2020 7:48 am
raymattison21 wrote:
setherick wrote:
I have no words: https://lol.myfootballnow.com/box/2259

This is the start of the series that shows just how bad this is: https://lol.myfootballnow.com/watch/2259#396822

3 plays, 3 times the DL explodes past the OL and the WRs (THAT ARE FASTER) can't get down field.



Some how sacks are worse and the TE1 and WR3 are now getting more targets


Sacks are worse for the same reason that they have always been bad.

OTs block straight up instead of trying to bend the DEs out of the play. This doesn't give the QB a pocket to operate in and let's the DE come straight to the QB.

But you continue to miss the obvious problems:

1) WRs are still too slow to run routes

2) QBs take too long to make decisions (mostly because of #1)

3) There are too many knockdowns and too may drops still. In this game, I had 27(!!!) incomplete passes (so much for trying to run an actual NFL styled spread offense in this 1990s sim engine). 14 were knocked down and 6 were dropped: https://victory.myfootballnow.com/box/717

3b) In that same game, my opponent only had 9 incomplete passes in what I'm sure was a classic short pass attack (the only offense you will ever be able to run), and 7(!!!) were knocked down. This is something that I've been pointing out for over a year, and it doesn't matter. Offensive passing comes in two flavors: (1) throw down field and watch your WRs drop it if you don't get sacked and (2) complete all short passes except the ones that are knocked down.

Since it doesn't look like we're ever going to move beyond anything more innovative than figuring out what new combination of short passes you can run, I'm losing interest again.
Last edited at 12/14/2020 8:16 am

Re: [0.4.6] Version 1792c8b1

By raymattison21
12/14/2020 9:47 am
1) is a problem in 4.5 as well. The main reason I opposed a release cause It was too strong then. That was real years ago....it just wasn’t so clear why then . You say it’s bump and I don’t disagree but I think man is to blame as well.

Really, I just moved on since as I have only seen it get stronger with the raising of zero speed. It gets tiresome being repetitive so I chime in where the code might be available for a change. As it doesn’t seem like that area has been touched since. Maybe the old 4.6 had a tweak there because it was easier to pass vs man schemes.....

I think this is what stops those long passes that I was glitching years ago. Same with the drops and knockdowns. Coverage is too tight which increases the chance for those. And really we are only speaking of outside man coverage schemes.

I have seen deeper passes already so something positive is going on but it’s clearly not enough there. What I don’t like is that LBer sacks have been lowered. They were good where they were at:

Re: [0.4.6] Version 1792c8b1

By setherick
12/14/2020 9:51 am
raymattison21 wrote:

I think this is what stops those long passes that I was glitching years ago. Same with the drops and knockdowns. Coverage is too tight which increases the chance for those. And really we are only speaking of outside man coverage schemes.


I still don't think your long pass strategy would have worked outside of MFN-1 where (1) 50% of the teams are running zone, which does not happen in veteran leagues, (2) teams were running slow, technical DBs (which doesn't happen in veteran leagues), and (3) teams were not effectively blitzing (which doesn't happen in veteran leagues).

I think it was a singular observation based on bad data and a bad inference was made from it and it largely ruined the game.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 1792c8b1

By raymattison21
12/14/2020 10:02 am
setherick wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:

I think this is what stops those long passes that I was glitching years ago. Same with the drops and knockdowns. Coverage is too tight which increases the chance for those. And really we are only speaking of outside man coverage schemes.


I still don't think your long pass strategy would have worked outside of MFN-1 where (1) 50% of the teams are running zone, which does not happen in veteran leagues, (2) teams were running slow, technical DBs (which doesn't happen in veteran leagues), and (3) teams were not effectively blitzing (which doesn't happen in veteran leagues).

I think it was a singular observation based on bad data and a bad inference was made from it and it largely ruined the game.



There was a point where I would have agreed but the speed gaps were there in that code. Parts I was completing them then with abuse around the tenth play the results completely reversed .

I think that’s where we left off. Even before then I like where they code was at. I think beer loud was stopping it with good calls.

That defense had really slow dbs and blitzed every time but by ten times of one play skills didn’t seem to matter. Even speed.

On an abuse note......I ran the 3 wr counter 20 times for 120 yards in 4.6 . It was by mistake but a better defense call would have shut it down. It’s a similar scenario where plays matter but how much should they matter when called a lot.