New Sticky Note

NOTICE: This league is using the BLEEDING EDGE game engine. For more information, click here.

The new user interface is in preview!

Want to check it out? Click here! (If you don't like it, you can still switch back)

League Forums

Main - Beta Chat

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By Warthog
11/13/2018 7:15 pm
Why does the QB throw this away? He never even backed away from the C.
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8924#1629062


Last edited at 11/13/2018 7:16 pm

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
11/13/2018 9:42 pm
setherick wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8923#1628903

Something is wrong here. 242 # LB had 4 sacks similar to this. Is he's too fast ? He was stuffing runs too. My line is not great , but one play, as the RDT head over center, he was so fast the C and LG were not even charged for the sack as he blew by them. The LT came all the way over got beat and was charged . All under 2 seconds he beat a three on one.



https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8923#1629034

Here is that other example.


Same thing happens on both plays: The C ignores the man over and blocks down, double teaming the guy that the RG has. This is the same problem that I was seeing with the LTs.

OL pass block logic really should go something like this:

1) OL takes man over
2) OL takes a step back and forms the pocket

The only time an OL should double someone is if he has no man over and the man on his left or right is going to get beaten. Tackles should rarely block inside period.


Is this egregious enough to try to fix with this update or do you think it's livable given the other fixes? I'm concerned that diving into this is going to become a rabbit hole that will take a while to get out of.

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
11/13/2018 9:59 pm
A couple of tweaks for tomorrow night's games:

* I think I've identified what is going on with the weird shovel pass. I also made some tweaks to the curl route timing.
* I found the trigger that was causing the QB to throw the ball away right at the beginning of a play, let me know if you continue to see that in the next sim.

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By setherick
11/13/2018 10:48 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
setherick wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8923#1628903

Something is wrong here. 242 # LB had 4 sacks similar to this. Is he's too fast ? He was stuffing runs too. My line is not great , but one play, as the RDT head over center, he was so fast the C and LG were not even charged for the sack as he blew by them. The LT came all the way over got beat and was charged . All under 2 seconds he beat a three on one.



https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8923#1629034

Here is that other example.


Same thing happens on both plays: The C ignores the man over and blocks down, double teaming the guy that the RG has. This is the same problem that I was seeing with the LTs.

OL pass block logic really should go something like this:

1) OL takes man over
2) OL takes a step back and forms the pocket

The only time an OL should double someone is if he has no man over and the man on his left or right is going to get beaten. Tackles should rarely block inside period.


Is this egregious enough to try to fix with this update or do you think it's livable given the other fixes? I'm concerned that diving into this is going to become a rabbit hole that will take a while to get out of.


It's probably livable. In my estimation, it seems really inconsistent. I haven't watched enough of the other games though to know for sure.

My concern is if someone finds a way to exploit it.

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By Ragnulf-le-maudit
11/15/2018 3:32 am
Qb looks like he will run, then throws, very VERY close of the LoS. IMO, it's past the line.
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8945#1632691

a pitch that looks strange
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8945#1632701
Last edited at 11/15/2018 3:42 am

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By setherick
11/15/2018 6:13 am
A few things:

* RBs are currently dominating the league in number of catches. This is probably game planning in most cases, but it is so disproportionate, I wanted to call it out.

* QBs check down to the RB quickly in a play's development. A good example of this is from my last game. My team called the 212 SE Post long passing play 4 times. Each pass went to the FB who runs a drag out of the backfield. The QB didn't look downfield on any route, or if he did, no WR was open. I call this out specifically because my opponent's CBs are not good enough to shut down my WRs in M2M every play like that.

* One reason that RBs are always so wide open is because LBs and Safeties play contain coverage on them when they come out of the backfield. Shouldn't LBs and Safeties come up and engage faster? Just a thought. I'm not sure it needs to be fixed right now.

* Throws to the TE seem to have disappeared. I've been testing mostly passes that go away from the TE, but I haven't seen many throws to my TE in the past few games. Again, could be game planning since I've been testing curls and hook routes. I would like to see a statistical break down of the past 5 games (since the latest round of major updates was pushed in) to be sure.

* In general, QB pocket presence and accuracy seem much improved so that's good. Coverage on the outside seems good too, which could be why QBs are checking down so frequently as well.

In my last game, I have no idea what happened on this play: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8934#1630838

Also, why does the WR run away from the first down marker when making this play? This should be fixed (I still suspect something is off with the algorithm): https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8934#1630848

One more. Pitches late in the game look really bad, like this one. Are pitches counting toward the QB fatigue clock? If they are, they shouldn't: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8934#1630914
Last edited at 11/15/2018 6:38 am

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By setherick
11/15/2018 8:02 am
Also, fix play calling. I'm still seeing weird things with play callings. For instance, I have two medium passing plays out of the 104. One play got called 4 times, a play 0. This is just one example, but I still see unbalanced play calling like that.

212 outside runs - one called 7 times, one called 3 times.

9 long passes called in 58 plays seems high considering on first and second down, I throw long 8-11% of the time.

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By raymattison21
11/15/2018 8:10 am
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8942#1632225

Oline turns in. This was the only sack this way. It just looks real bad. Perhaps a simple fix would be upping the value of pass block a bit.

Those wobbly passes count as a a hurry / qb hit/qb knockdown in my book. But a hurry is when he throws it with a defender 2 to 3 yards away, a qb hit 1 to 2 yards, and a qb knockdown should be less than a yard.

Splitting the verbage up will lower redundancy in the game viewer reader. Adding logic to Talley hurries would enhance evaluation , and tweaking how pressure effects qbs will normalize numbers and gamemplay.

Cause I am with Seth the game changes for passing as the fatigue clock and game finalize . All bad plays, poor reads, poor pitches, sacks, ints, drops, bad throw aways and especially wobbly passes all increase along with the fatigue clock.

Quick passes looked better but I throw short alot . In general it's easier to catch the ball. I like that but IMO speed is more valuable now in that regard .

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
11/15/2018 10:11 am
setherick wrote:
* QBs check down to the RB quickly in a play's development. A good example of this is from my last game. My team called the 212 SE Post long passing play 4 times. Each pass went to the FB who runs a drag out of the backfield. The QB didn't look downfield on any route, or if he did, no WR was open. I call this out specifically because my opponent's CBs are not good enough to shut down my WRs in M2M every play like that.


I'm testing some checkdown logic updates today and if there are no issues I'll push it for tonight's games.

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By Warthog
11/15/2018 12:15 pm
Seems like I had quite a few quick throws into the middle of the line that were incomplete. QB throwing the ball way before the RB runs any route.