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Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By raymattison21
11/17/2018 9:09 am
Qbs and or blockers could be to blame. No doubt . Right now the qbs time to throw looks better than other times . That rules out parts of qb and blocking for me. My wr 1 was not targeted all game, and my wr2 won nfc wr of the week with 4 catches for 26 yards . Yes , there dbs were fast but man coverage deep is tight and lbs / safties coverage is a bit loose. My TEs went for 250 and my qb had a 70+% completion rate, but 4 sacks on long passes.

Alot of these sacks are long passes that the qb just doesn't do the right thing when guys are seen to be covered . There is alot of logic going on , but simply said long passes are nerfed .

The play earlier cited both WRs were as deep down field as the back coming out of the backfield . That's one heck of a jam by the dbs. Open that part back up a bit....and let lb and safeties get up on those dump offs. The question is will the qb find the open wrs, run it, or throw it away at the right times.

If the dbs have wrs in check deep and the qb gets some time the wrs should bail and comeback to the side of the field the qb rolled to. I am not seeing that too much.

If dump offs are increasing so should be the angle and timing of the cover guys. A SS took a beautiful pick 6 vs. Me off a RB route. He was good though ...right now that seems equal, both are below ideal. I still think you could creatively get 80 to 100 catches out of back.
Last edited at 11/17/2018 9:12 am

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By setherick
11/17/2018 9:19 am
raymattison21 wrote:
Qbs and or blockers could be to blame. No doubt . Right now the qbs time to throw looks better than other times .


I haven't watched your game yet, but this is not true at all. QBs are taking at least 2 seconds, sometimes 3, to throw short and intermediate routes. That's far too slow.

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By raymattison21
11/17/2018 9:33 am
setherick wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
Qbs and or blockers could be to blame. No doubt . Right now the qbs time to throw looks better than other times .


I haven't watched your game yet, but this is not true at all. QBs are taking at least 2 seconds, sometimes 3, to throw short and intermediate routes. That's far too slow.


Yes, I am not getting sacked there and my guy is completing passes. The long plays he holding the ball 3 to 5 seconds but just taking a sack. Less than two seconds is not an nfl average either but IMO the long passes could be avoided by forcing a pass outside , running it, or throwing it away.

I think our talking about timing , based off initial reads and coverage where my focus is after that, more toward the throwaway logic. If there is difference there? That 3 to 5 seconds gets real wacky as I didn't notice too many quick throws.

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By Warthog
11/17/2018 9:46 am
Really long pitch here, which isn't bad, but then the RB turns and runs back into the defense instead of going upfield for the the score.
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635666

Another pitch, but this is bad, RB runs backward to catch it.
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635712

And the checkdown logic is definitely different. Over the previous seven games, my RB1 averaged 15 targets. In the latest game he had 4 targets. Now I do think the 15 targets was excessive, but it helped my O move the ball pretty well. Today without the checkdowns, my O stunk.
Last edited at 11/17/2018 9:49 am

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By setherick
11/17/2018 9:53 am
I'm in favor of reverting the checkdown logic back to what it was before the last commit and not fixing the OL blocking problem right now. BUT it would need to explained on release what the changes mean.

The good, as Warthog said, is that the offense moves. The "bad" is that the RB gets a lot of targets. We can game plan around that "bad".

We can fix the OL blocking problem in 0.4.5 if RBs can catch the ball like they were. It's a fair trade off.

---

This is from the first quarter of Ray's game. I couldn't watch anymore than that.

1) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635611
a) QB holds the ball too long here. The WRs are in one-on-one coverage. And the safeties have both blitzed. He could take a chance on one of them or throw it away before he gets sacked. He should have thrown the ball at the 14:58 to one of the outside WRs when he realized the pressure. The problem here is that both WRs stuttered on the and it slowed them off their routes.

2) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635619
a) The LG and LT turn away from their man at the start of the play.

3) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635621
a) TELEPORTING LG! THE BUG IS BACK!

4) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635623
a) TELEPORTING LG PART DEUX!

5) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635639
a) Tackle that gives up this sack looks inside first. The RB is open, but QB is not checking down this game so it's a sack.

6) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635640
a) Why doesn't the CB pick up the WR here?

7 https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635658
a) Tackle blocks inside.
Last edited at 11/17/2018 10:20 am

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By raymattison21
11/17/2018 10:54 am
setherick wrote:
I'm in favor of reverting the checkdown logic back to what it was before the last commit and not fixing the OL blocking problem right now. BUT it would need to explained on release what the changes mean.

The good, as Warthog said, is that the offense moves. The "bad" is that the RB gets a lot of targets. We can game plan around that "bad".

We can fix the OL blocking problem in 0.4.5 if RBs can catch the ball like they were. It's a fair trade off.

---

This is from the first quarter of Ray's game. I couldn't watch anymore than that.

1) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635611
a) QB holds the ball too long here. The WRs are in one-on-one coverage. And the safeties have both blitzed. He could take a chance on one of them or throw it away before he gets sacked. He should have thrown the ball at the 14:58 to one of the outside WRs when he realized the pressure. The problem here is that both WRs stuttered on the and it slowed them off their routes.

should have been a throwaway


2) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635619
a) The LG and LT turn away from their man at the start of the play.

nice play otherwise

3) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635621
a) TELEPORTING LG! THE BUG IS BACK!



4) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635623
a) TELEPORTING LG PART DEUX!

5) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635639
a) Tackle that gives up this sack looks inside first. The RB is open, but QB is not checking down this game so it's a sack.

the safety could have taken a better angle . Dump offs will get increased , but defensive
players need to cover better

6) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635640
a) Why doesn't the CB pick up the WR here?

I thought this was a good play involving top tier players.

7 https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635658
a) Tackle blocks inside.


84 speed 100 pass rush DE. In theory if the tackle step out the DE could swoop in. I need some balance in changes

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By raymattison21
11/17/2018 11:15 am
Warthog wrote:
Really long pitch here, which isn't bad, but then the RB turns and runs back into the defense instead of going upfield for the the score.
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635666

Another pitch, but this is bad, RB runs backward to catch it.
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8962#1635712

And the checkdown logic is definitely different. Over the previous seven games, my RB1 averaged 15 targets. In the latest game he had 4 targets. Now I do think the 15 targets was excessive, but it helped my O move the ball pretty well. Today without the checkdowns, my O stunk.


A nice balance would be the goal. Your back did have 73 yards receiving. Long psssing and dumping it off shouldn't result in 200 yards a game either(like my last few games). Coverage is broke there. Tweak that and I will take more dump offs .

Right now long passes to WRs is harder. We play a straight man of the outside and held your WRs pretty well. There is really no need to play a deep defense . I would rather you beat me with your WRs as well your backs.

A couple more throwaways and qb runs would help as well. Both had smart qbs

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By setherick
11/17/2018 11:15 am
I'm not saying defensive ends shouldn't make plays. All I'm pointing out is that the blocking logic is currently wrong. I don't care if Tackles get beaten on plays, but I do care that tackles are turning away from their man.

Oh, and that the teleporting OL bug is back. That needs fixed right now.

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By raymattison21
11/17/2018 12:06 pm
setherick wrote:
I'm not saying defensive ends shouldn't make plays. All I'm pointing out is that the blocking logic is currently wrong. I don't care if Tackles get beaten on plays, but I do care that tackles are turning away from their man.

Oh, and that the teleporting OL bug is back. That needs fixed right now.


Oh yeah...an inside move would make the qb rollout, and an outside move or contain responsibly would force him to step up. Right now it's a bullrush looking game where speed kills the offensive glitch.

Cause DEs here don't take nfl edge pass rush angles either . If so would tackles step out right along with?

We should have some DL gameplan options or at least plays with DL assignments that so they can cover different gaps.

Re: [Update] Game engine version fbecf8b

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
11/17/2018 1:14 pm
setherick wrote:
I'm in favor of reverting the checkdown logic back to what it was before the last commit and not fixing the OL blocking problem right now. BUT it would need to explained on release what the changes mean.


There was a bug that was fixed (QB would go to the "should I throw the ball away" logic immediately), but the other thing that changed was the decision score for shorter routes. So basically when a QB is ready to throw the ball, he scores his primary receiver and then all other receivers in his field of view. If the receiver is further downfield than his primary receiver, the score reduces linearly the further downfield he is. Shorter routes were not reduced. This caused the QB to favor shorter routes when the play called for a longer pass. In this last sim, I added a linear decrease for shorter routes as well unless the QB is under pressure or has waited in the pocket for several seconds for his primary. Sounds like that didn't fare well. I'll remove that for the next games.
Last edited at 11/17/2018 1:16 pm