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Re: [0.4.5] Version 8683448

By setherick
2/06/2019 7:25 am
1) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/9318#1697210
a) Really stupid looking interception here. This should be a touch down. Why can't QBs throw the ball longer than 20 yards ever?

2) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/9318#1697234
a) Here's another stupid looking interception. The WR breaks to the outside, but then the DB teleports in front of him to make the interception. Unrealistic.

3) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/9318#1697240
a) Oh, boy, back to the code randomly breaking. Why can't QBs consistently lead receivers.

Re: [0.4.5] Version 8683448

By Warthog
2/06/2019 12:31 pm
I'm still a little concerned about the frequency of knockdowns. My QB, with 100 accuracy, threw 52 passes, 31 completions, 2 INTS, 18 were knockdown. The means only 1 out of 52 was off target and just a miss. Does he get more knocked down because he is so accurate? But if his accuracy is that good, they should all be completions...

Re: [0.4.5] Version 8683448

By Warthog
2/08/2019 9:48 am
Warthog wrote:
I'm still a little concerned about the frequency of knockdowns. My QB, with 100 accuracy, threw 52 passes, 31 completions, 2 INTS, 18 were knockdown. The means only 1 out of 52 was off target and just a miss. Does he get more knocked down because he is so accurate? But if his accuracy is that good, they should all be completions...


Same thing in today’s game. My qb was 30 for 48, with 4 INTs and 13 passes knocked down. Given his ratings, I am baffled by his performance the last two games. I would say his decision making might be horrible, but he is rated 100 in look off def, field of vision and accuracy. If the knock downs and INTs are legit, why is he deciding to throw the ball to these receivers who obviously aren’t open?

And as Seth has pointed out, the defenders are reacting WAY too fast to ***** in the air. Guys are leaving their man as soon as the ball leaves the QB’s hand, if their man is not the target. And they get to the targeted receiver before the ball. That needs fixed. So many throws end up looking like they are going into double/triple/quadruple coverage.

Re: [0.4.5] Version 8683448

By raymattison21
2/08/2019 10:32 am
Warthog wrote:
Warthog wrote:
I'm still a little concerned about the frequency of knockdowns. My QB, with 100 accuracy, threw 52 passes, 31 completions, 2 INTS, 18 were knockdown. The means only 1 out of 52 was off target and just a miss. Does he get more knocked down because he is so accurate? But if his accuracy is that good, they should all be completions...


Same thing in today’s game. My qb was 30 for 48, with 4 INTs and 13 passes knocked down. Given his ratings, I am baffled by his performance the last two games. I would say his decision making might be horrible, but he is rated 100 in look off def, field of vision and accuracy. If the knock downs and INTs are legit, why is he deciding to throw the ball to these receivers who obviously aren’t open?

And as Seth has pointed out, the defenders are reacting WAY too fast to ***** in the air. Guys are leaving their man as soon as the ball leaves the QB’s hand, if their man is not the target. And they get to the targeted receiver before the ball. That needs fixed. So many throws end up looking like they are going into double/triple/quadruple coverage.


Drops and knockdowns need " that one went off the recievers finger tips" or " the qb just missed his target. . We need less knockdowns or drops in alot of these senerios to male numbers look real .

That game We blitzed on 30% of downs . Keeping seven or eight in coverage should help stop any great qb with slower receivers . There was now where to go.

But this leads to the lack of the deep ball. Or any big plays. Most of our long runs are due to abuse the penalty , and Yes defenders react quicker but that has made defensive schemes other than man more effective . So, based on our game I like what my defensive unit did. Keep slow guys in front of them. IRL it easier to jump routes with this scheme .

But like I stated earlier a 13 speed cb with no bump only let up one deep pass while playing 8 man fronts. Simple said it easy to play defense cause of that.

On the other hand great defenders are over running double coverages and swing passes are throwning cover guys in some glitch that looks like the qb is looking them off . Without these the passing game numbers would look even worse for qbs .

Re: [0.4.5] Version 8683448

By Warthog
2/08/2019 11:09 am
raymattison21 wrote:
Keep slow guys in front of them. IRL it easier to jump routes with this scheme .


My top two WRs have 76 and 83 speed. Are you saying that is too slow to be successful now?

I applaud your defense in that game, don’t get me wrong. But I am still concern with the QB logic on where he was throwing into coverage with no pressure. Why isn’t he looking at his next option or simply taking off and running?

Re: [0.4.5] Version 8683448

By Warthog
2/08/2019 12:09 pm
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/9323#1698105

Here's the first INT. WR1 is double covered. Slot WR is covered. LB covering the back out of the backfield is 7-8 yards away when the ball is released. But the three DBs immediately leave their men and move to the RB when the pass is thrown. So when the ball reaches the RB, their are 4 defenders on top of him, and the LB makes the INT. The DBs should not be leaving their coverage so quickly, especially if they are in Man coverage. If it is more one on one, RB vs LB, does that ball still get intercepted?

Re: [0.4.5] Version 8683448

By raymattison21
2/08/2019 3:07 pm
Warthog wrote:
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/9323#1698105

Here's the first INT. WR1 is double covered. Slot WR is covered. LB covering the back out of the backfield is 7-8 yards away when the ball is released. But the three DBs immediately leave their men and move to the RB when the pass is thrown. So when the ball reaches the RB, their are 4 defenders on top of him, and the LB makes the INT. The DBs should not be leaving their coverage so quickly, especially if they are in Man coverage. If it is more one on one, RB vs LB, does that ball still get intercepted?


IRL the wrs would be deeper down feild and if coverage /pressure was good enough he should have dumped it sooner .

Still , those 3 DBs all whiffed big on their play on the ball. It was a good call and play, but the visual rendition shows the weakness in the code.

It was bump vs avoid bump and speed vs. Speed as no cuts were even made by the wrs .

We keep pushing tweaking for qbs to throw to wrs but they are covered and by the time the qb sees that the dump is there it is too late. The end route senerios sends them into the deeper flats ...where the WR is being held up by the db. That's more of a problem than better reactions of cover guys. TES and backs are still getting more targets . They are just poorer results .

It might be that they are back peddling the whole time. My 90 speed CBs are aware enough to just read and step forward . IRL they would be playing some version of a trail techniques. Making that turn and read in trail is near impossible .

We have swung from always in trail technique to not so much, but like I said guys are jumping routes like crazy which counters the effectiveness of playing trail
Last edited at 2/08/2019 3:08 pm

Re: [0.4.5] Version 8683448

By setherick
2/08/2019 7:49 pm
Here are the problems that I've seen that speak to this:

1) The accuracy calculation is way off in how it "calculates" for multiple defenders. QBs are throwing into multiple coverage.

2) Passing velocity may be too slow. QBs are looping a lot of passes they should be throwing bullets on. If a QB can't throw a 25 yard bullet, he has no reason to be a pro. If he can't throw a 40-50 yard rainbow accurately, same thing. MFN QB can do neither.

3) Drop calculations are stupid nerfs for old code. The idea that WRs would have a HARDER time catching LONG passes is just dumb. The more time the ball is in the air, the EASIER it is to catch because you have more time to adjust to it. That also means the EASIER it is to defend, but if the WR has the DB beat, he should CATCH it. <--- Needs a hot fix right now!

4) WRs don't run to the open spot when they end their route. They just turn around and run the opposite direction. This drags defenders into other receivers space.

5) We have all known for YEARS that more accurate QBs throw more INTs because the accuracy calculation is so overengineered that it's impossible to debug.

Re: [0.4.5] Version 8683448

By raymattison21
2/08/2019 8:13 pm
setherick wrote:
Here are the problems that I've seen that speak to this:

1) The accuracy calculation is way off in how it "calculates" for multiple defenders. QBs are throwing into multiple coverage.

bad reads

2) Passing velocity may be too slow. QBs are looping a lot of passes they should be throwing bullets on. If a QB can't throw a 25 yard bullet, he has no reason to be a pro. If he can't throw a 40-50 yard rainbow accurately, same thing. MFN QB can do neither.

the return game has changed yet again . Ball speed change here as well?

3) Drop calculations are stupid nerfs for old code. The idea that WRs would have a HARDER time catching LONG passes is just dumb. The more time the ball is in the air, the EASIER it is to catch because you have more time to adjust to it. That also means the EASIER it is to defend, but if the WR has the DB beat, he should CATCH it. <--- Needs a hot fix right now!

4) WRs don't run to the open spot when they end their route. They just turn around and run the opposite direction. This drags defenders into other receivers space.

I like to see this looked at. This along with the scramble/throw away logic might make qbs read better

5) We have all known for YEARS that more accurate QBs throw more INTs because the accuracy calculation is so overengineered that it's impossible to debug.

I didn't see this in 4.3, but I didn't throw any long passes either.

Re: [0.4.5] Version 8683448

By setherick
2/08/2019 8:17 pm
Regarding accuracy, it was a problem prior to 0.4.3: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/community/1/2753?page=1#18249

And then again in 0.4.3: https://usflwfl.myfootballnow.com/forums/3/825?page=1

Then in 0.4.4 accuracy became super important, but also misses became really bad because otherwise they are intercepted all of the time. No idea why when most WRs get generated with 70+ courage and most DBs get generated with <40 punish, but attributes don't make any sense still.
Last edited at 2/08/2019 8:18 pm