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Re: [0.4.6] Version e9a5a849

By setherick
11/22/2019 10:43 pm
shauma_llama wrote:
My buddy from one private league decided to just go Load Recommended becuase he feels that customizing a game-plan and carefully selecting plays won't matter because the computer won't call them anyway.


I set up a SQL database to determine which plays worked the best, and only call those...

I just didn't port the game plan into 1 since I more or less gave up on the season after watching pass after pass get knocked down.
Last edited at 11/22/2019 10:46 pm

Re: [0.4.6] Version e9a5a849

By shauma_llama
11/22/2019 11:42 pm
I was doing that with an excel spreadsheet, don't have SQL on my game machine, then I got bored with it as I decided gameplanning really didn't mean much.
Last edited at 11/22/2019 11:51 pm

Re: [0.4.6] Version e9a5a849

By setherick
11/23/2019 12:02 am
shauma_llama wrote:
I was doing that with an excel spreadsheet, don't have SQL on my game machine, then I got bored with it as I decided gameplanning really didn't mean much.


I got tired of not having real stats.

Re: [0.4.6] Version e9a5a849

By TarquinTheDark
11/23/2019 3:37 am
shauma_llama wrote:
I got bored with it as I decided gameplanning really didn't mean much.


Good to know it's not just me.

Re: [0.4.6] Version e9a5a849

By shauma_llama
11/23/2019 8:08 am
setherick wrote:
shauma_llama wrote:
I was doing that with an excel spreadsheet, don't have SQL on my game machine, then I got bored with it as I decided gameplanning really didn't mean much.


I got tired of not having real stats.


It'd be nice if the game told you the completion percentage on the various passes along with that average gain. It must know.

Re: [0.4.6] Version e9a5a849

By raymattison21
11/23/2019 12:05 pm
shauma_llama wrote:
setherick wrote:
shauma_llama wrote:
I was doing that with an excel spreadsheet, don't have SQL on my game machine, then I got bored with it as I decided gameplanning really didn't mean much.


I got tired of not having real stats.


It'd be nice if the game told you the completion percentage on the various passes along with that average gain. It must know.


I have been passing the same thru 4. 4 and on. 4.5 had huge holes in zone but it wasn't in the middle of the feild . Alot of pass plays strong side have the favor of an extra defender that way...making big plays on forced pass. Those big play are less than 4.4 and 4.5 but 4.6 just doesn't have those huge holes, but passing is the same.

I used my te converted to wr to create seperation . Hes like 220 lbs now, plays the slot, and sometimes wr2 as a reserve but his catch percentage is up a good 10 points. Plays matter but the personal matters more. Those couple points of speed makes plays work better .

I need a cross section of stats showing plays tied to player speed. Especially interceptions, broken tackles, reciever catch % and yards receded by a cover guy. One day

Re: [0.4.6] Version e9a5a849

By setherick
11/24/2019 1:14 am
From my data analysis, player attributes have no bearing in 4.5 on whether a WR is going to do well or catch the ball. It all comes down to broken plays, meaning plays that necessarily put the defense at a disadvantage.

That's why the slant routes like the FL Hitch are so effective. That particular play can be run by any SP WR with decent route because something inherently about it is broken.

For instance, one of the defense it does the best against in my database is the 4-3 Double WR2. Now, wait a second, this seems like the best play to run against the Hitch, but it routinely gets destroyed for big plays. That means game planning logic gets trumped by a play that's just broken.

The 221 Streak is another good example of a broken play. It's a long pass that goes to the RB 90% of the time, and always for a big gain. Why a big gain? Because a 90 SP RB will ALWAYS beat the LB to the spot of the ball if you have an LB cover the RB. It's the same way with most of the 221 passing plays. The QB holds the ball long enough for the RB to get out in front of the LB, and then the RB is gone because no one is near enough to play cover.

The only defense that works effectively against most of the passing plays right now is the Flat Zone, and again, it's because it's essentially broken. The LBs flood the hash on either side of the field, but that's where most of the effective passes are going to be thrown. Since proximity matters more than cover attributes, the LBs get a lot of knockdowns and interceptions just by standing around in the right spot for the ball to be thrown. And given QB decision making, it's ridiculously hard to game plan a play where the QB throws to the RB in the middle of the field that is ISO'ed on the MLB. And IMPOSSIBLE to game plan for the QB to throw a deep post route to a TE ISO'ed on a Safety. If that were the case, the Flat Zone would disappear from everyone's game plan overnight. But it's not.

The only time that player attributes seem to really matter is in the open field. I've seen plenty of 60 SP, 100 Route or 100 Courage WRs, break down coverage on a broken slant play and then slam on the brakes as soon as they catch the ball. And most technical attributes matter NOTHING on defense. Otherwise, this guy in 23 would have gotten no where near the stats he got playing MLB in a straight Cover 1 defense: https://mfn23.myfootballnow.com/player/8786

So for defense, SP vs SP still rules. And the only way to pass is to exploit broken plays. Nothing really changed since 4.2 except which plays are effective now.

Re: [0.4.6] Version e9a5a849

By raymattison21
11/25/2019 9:42 am
setherick wrote:
From my data analysis, player attributes have no bearing in 4.5 on whether a WR is going to do well or catch the ball. It all comes down to broken plays, meaning plays that necessarily put the defense at a disadvantage.

That's why the slant routes like the FL Hitch are so effective. That particular play can be run by any SP WR with decent route because something inherently about it is broken.

For instance, one of the defense it does the best against in my database is the 4-3 Double WR2. Now, wait a second, this seems like the best play to run against the Hitch, but it routinely gets destroyed for big plays. That means game planning logic gets trumped by a play that's just broken.

The 221 Streak is another good example of a broken play. It's a long pass that goes to the RB 90% of the time, and always for a big gain. Why a big gain? Because a 90 SP RB will ALWAYS beat the LB to the spot of the ball if you have an LB cover the RB. It's the same way with most of the 221 passing plays. The QB holds the ball long enough for the RB to get out in front of the LB, and then the RB is gone because no one is near enough to play cover.

The only defense that works effectively against most of the passing plays right now is the Flat Zone, and again, it's because it's essentially broken. The LBs flood the hash on either side of the field, but that's where most of the effective passes are going to be thrown. Since proximity matters more than cover attributes, the LBs get a lot of knockdowns and interceptions just by standing around in the right spot for the ball to be thrown. And given QB decision making, it's ridiculously hard to game plan a play where the QB throws to the RB in the middle of the field that is ISO'ed on the MLB. And IMPOSSIBLE to game plan for the QB to throw a deep post route to a TE ISO'ed on a Safety. If that were the case, the Flat Zone would disappear from everyone's game plan overnight. But it's not.

The only time that player attributes seem to really matter is in the open field. I've seen plenty of 60 SP, 100 Route or 100 Courage WRs, break down coverage on a broken slant play and then slam on the brakes as soon as they catch the ball. And most technical attributes matter NOTHING on defense. Otherwise, this guy in 23 would have gotten no where near the stats he got playing MLB in a straight Cover 1 defense: https://mfn23.myfootballnow.com/player/8786

So for defense, SP vs SP still rules. And the only way to pass is to exploit broken plays. Nothing really changed since 4.2 except which plays are effective now.


Alot of this carries over to 4.6 , but with the right speeds other plays work better or worse . I don't use any of those plays because they seem to be broke or it doesn't fit our scheme . Whats worse from 4.5 till now is those outside drag routes aren't thrown to enough .

People figured out how to game 4.5 eventually . Right now , on 4.6 , the qb throws to the same guys alot and it won't get a fair shot , like 4.5 , if released. Cause of these auto reads .

Alot has changed from 4.5, like those drag routes , off ball defenders , drop on long *****. Some good some bad. Pressures and qb scrambling got to go up and man coverage has to be lowered a bit. Things other than play calls, speed and courage should matter .

Once the play breaks down things get real whacky but that area is weak all around . Other than that the knockdowns and ints are too high , mostly likely cause of forced reads. 4.4 and 4.5 have those auto reads and I think it's not getting better . ..just changing . Why don't these qbs just throw to the open guy? 4.4 they dumped it off alot and completion % were up but the qb position has been very different since 4.2, 4.3, but there not like 4.4 and on. Alot is the same but the auto reads are up.

4.2. or 4.3 , some where in beta qbs were running sacks were close, the long ball was there and yes the poor reads are in the code then too. The passing distribution was different but still close to now. I liked those code cause of the balance. They probably had flaws but anything after that had these poor/ auto reads.

Tightening coverage and limited qb mobility crept in to the code then. So, I blame them mostly . I would look at fixing them as a whole to balance things out .
Last edited at 11/25/2019 9:47 am

Re: [0.4.6] Version e9a5a849

By Ragnulf-le-maudit
11/26/2019 5:26 am
I totally agree on the fact that it's of no use to gameplan.
I used not to, then did it for a few seasons, then reverted. No real difference, my team looks better now though.

Re: [0.4.6] Version e9a5a849

By shauma_llama
11/27/2019 9:27 am
Now that my season is over I have a confession to make about game-planning. From week three ownwards I did Load Recommended every week because I didn't think it was worth the effort to game-plan.