Depth chart governance discussion

In thinking about RL NFL game simulation, I remember how prior to computer & internet games that games like APBA and Stratomatic duplicated actual NFL player stats.
They did not use a lot of different plays, in fact, APBA only had 5 generic offensive plays. The focus was on stat simulation based on the player cards.

Was wondering what games, if any, were currently considered the best RL NFL simulation and why ...... here is the online search answer to the question ......

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+are+the+most+popular+current+online+NFL+simulation+games%3F&newwindow=1&sca_esv=5074c3e5433fd5a9&biw=882&bih=408&sxsrf=APpeQntZUv5Yrf6I-Wi9rh4yq-Ed50JIGA%3A1787940668803&ei=PM-RapTRMO-5mtkP8c2G8Qk&ved=0ahUKEwiU38WD9sOWAxXvnCYFHfGmIZ4Q4dUDCBA&oq=what+are+the+most+popular+current+online+NFL+simulation+games%3F&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiPndoYXQgYXJlIHRoZSBtb3N0IHBvcHVsYXIgY3VycmVudCBvbmxpbmUgTkZMIHNpbXVsYXRpb24gZ2FtZXM_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-gBgAgB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

I think, as it stands, this AI depth chart code can't be released to other leagues.

My rationale is twofold.

Rationale of decision making by AI is poor - as shown by last few non Granddad comments.
The negative reaction to the above at this time will damage the game rep rather than enhance it.

It's an incredibly complicated area - for example, two teams need a QB, AI for each bids on same FA, what happens to the losing team?

It's an area that is suffering due to the owner having little to no control over the cuts / signings, other than abiding by position count in first instance. I've no issue with this replicating NFL roster churn at the bottom, but until the head scratching decisions can be minimised, I'd be opposed to releasing it as a change.

AI is basically a scam and nobody should really use it for anything

Continued the search for online NFL simulators. One came up on Google Play called American Football Manager 2025. It had a rating of 4.2 our of 5 stars, and 100k downloads. It does not have a graphic display of a play outcome, as MFN does. Here is one comment about the game....
"I think its better to have a gameplay reality. Not only simulated scores. Its kinda boring for a game only showing details and not moving characters."

There were a couple of other comments, one concerning $ paid for "tokens" to draft players. So the cost element was in there. All in all, after searching for games same or similar to MFN, at least so far, I havn't been able to find one that has all or near the same features.

I agree.
I'll stake that agreement upon one simple and basic item:
I can not set any players but a K or a P at K/P.
HOWEVER:
The AI will sub in non kickers and punters for that position.

In alpha, I can use player search/atributes/k accuracy or p timing and try and put the best qualified players with such attributes as backups at K/P.

Humans not being allowed to do so in the current Depth governance while the AI WILL do so is the perfect example of the heart of the matter:

The current beta depth chart system only prevents the User from governing their depth charts.

In no circumstance is relenting full position control to the AI a win for the user.
Unacceptable.

If the AI can do anything a user can not, then it is not a releasable product.

DCG must be fixed before it goes alpha.

PS: WIllow's right, to a degree.
Always follow the Monet $$

AI slop is a genuine concern - both in product and on my depth chart *grin*
:)

I wouldnt mind the auto manager taking care of roster issues if it was anywhere near efficient and produced positive results, but its a long way from doing that. Cutting or not re-signing high rated starters at the 5 year exp mark is a prime example, and the reason why those players end up going to Early FA from AI managed teams or when the human owner misses the resigning/contracting. Instead, the auto manager replaces them with older vets, slower speed and ratings/attributes, with full term and high salary/bonus contracts. The auto manager needs a lot of work and significant improvement. In addition to the auto coach needing improvement on play selection and use.

So let's drill down specifically what seems to be broken with the AI doing roster transactions.

1. Is the Computer (I'm not calling it "AI" anymore, that term has completely changed meaning performing actions without a warning? I.e, is this a case of someone not seeing the warning / failing in the attempt to fix it during the midweek spin, or is it completely unexpected?
2. I saw the comment about the computer putting players in where the user cannot. That's there as a guard so that the engine doesn't crash if all players are injured; but this additional code is designed to make sure the computer has enough players to choose from so that is extremely rare. Right now in the primary game engine, it is very likely that the roster will force the computer to break the matrix rules. That said, is this happening in MFN-1?

To 1, I have not seen the computer change my depth chart or actives/in-actives since the computer was updated to stop playing injured players last season. It makes sense to have the guard rail described in 2, and I have not seen anything like it happen.

Is there a chance the code for 2 could be modified/reused to make it so the computer tries everything in house to fix the issue before cutting and signing players to fix depth chart issues? And make it so that the computer only messes with the affected positions and not completely reorganizes a depth chart?

Most frustrations I feel I saw, were linked to owners having their players cut and their players not in the positions they wanted them. Cutting back on both of those to an even higher degree would be a good idea because most owners will not see all this trouble shooting and work we’ve done to make the feature usable, they might just get their players cut and moved with what feels like next to no warning

The way it's intended to work is that there are two passes when the computer checks the roster:

1. The first pass checks that the minimum number of players at each position movement group exists. For example, if the league allows RB and FB switches, it counts the minimum RB (2) plus the minimum FB (1) and ensures that between RB and FB you have a total of 3 players on the roster. If this is not the case, it will make roster movements to ensure that you do.
2. The second pass checks your depth chart to ensure that you have the minimum player count at each position. This pass won't make any roster changes, only depth chart changes.

In the 2077 season this had a lot of bugs in it, but I believe all those bugs have been fixed. We just went through the preseason/regular season start in 2078, so please limit your analysis to what happened in that transition.