I wanted to pull a JDB comment out of a different thread to open up a thread on 0.4.2. JDB mentioned that he was looking at two changes in v.0.4.2:

1) Speed will display how fast a player is relative to all other players. No more 100 SP linemen, but at least we'll understand how fast players actually are compared to all other players.

2) Frame will be a hidden attribute that determines how much weight a player can gain/lose.

I wanted to talk more about Frame.

1) The attribute shouldn't be hidden. It should appear on the player card with a simple description like Weak, Thin, Normal, Large, Very Large.

2) Strength should be a variable skill based on Frame. Consider a wire frame player like Tom Brady who blossomed in a professional weight training program.

3) If not 2, strength should be shown as relative to a player's weight. No more 100 ST players at 180# that become 100 ST players at 270# (which is what we have right now with all the undersized DEs).

Regarding speed:

1) Going to a universal system will severely throw off custom weights. If a DE will hit a top speed of 60 in the new code, for instance, and my weights have him at 100 for Speed, he's at best a 60 overall player if I'm just looking at Speed.

if i have this correct, frame is the ability of a player to add or lose weight?
If thats the case, the frame imo needs to be hidden. Seeing it might make that aspect of the game seem a lil too robotic.

In RL you can tell a player to lose weight but ya never know if he's gonna til he does or doesn't do it. And if he does change weight I think there should be some kind of consequence. Say if he's successful at adding 10lbs, he may gain strength but should lose in speed and acceleration as a consequence. And vice versa or even different combos of attributes affected if they make sense.

I like the idea of attributes as an overall measurement vs by position. Sometimes it's hard to wrap my head around a lineman with 100 speed. Using a bench press weight and 40 yd dash time would be kool. This could open up a combine or pro days down the road as a feature.

I've wanted to add combine data to the player info, but I want more than the 40-yard dash time (which would be easy to calculate). The other drills will take some thought as to how to calculate from the player's attributes, which is why I haven't done it yet.

The other drills are straight line speed also, but they have turns involved . Those turns should be measured with the same ratings as generally the smaller is quicker at turning.

The 20 yard shuttle goes 5 yards and a 180' turn then 10 yards and a 180' turn then 5 more yards. Essentially they are 5 and ten yard splits with different points of slowing down to turn and starting back up again.

Acceleration is the measure of slowing down and speeding up, but the actual turn is a fluid movement tied in to quick twitch muscle response. Which in my opinion should use both speed and acceleration in tandem to achieve desirable turning speed to achieve combine numbers . (I assume the game uses a flat number which dictates turning speed on the feild)

The 3 cone uses a five yard start then goes in to a 180' turn followed by another five yards, but then it's a 90' turn then 5 more yards heading in to an 180' degree turn and finishes with another 5 yards and another 90' turn and a five yard finish.

Bench is another story but the numbers for a one rep max is very tied into how many reps a guy can do a 225. To me using a linear measure like a weight adjustment combined with the strength rating will give you numbers but I would prefer the players height playing a part here.

Shorter players have shorter arms which physically puts them at an advantage to bench. As most top performers in the bench are around 6 foot 1. A 6 foot 7 tackle might put up 23 reps at 300 pounds , but the 6 foot 1 DT with the same strength and weight numbers would have better bench scores, but would not be stronger , but would have a better chance of gaining leverage due to being shorter. Simpler might be better for this one.

The vertical and broad jump are also measures of quick twitch. Using punish here does work, but it is not a jumping rating. As it covers a gambit of football skills like concentration and the ability to deliver a big hit or catch the ball in traffic.

The wonderlick might be the easiest. Just use intelligence , but remember that is a test and more probowlers than you think scored below a ten on there wonderlick. Most are RB, LB , DB, and DT where natural football instinct and good coaching can overcome the ability to take a written test.

I have a different opinion about this.

I think the "frame" should be seen. You can tell just by looking at someone what their "frame" is. Obviously it's not exact for everyone.

I think discipline should come into play when determining if a player will reach the target weight you set for him (and how quickly), influenced by his frame of course. Some players will never get to certain weights no matter what they do.

Ya i don't know if Im understanding what frame is.

Is it just his size or is it the ability to gain and lose weight?

It would be his 'natural' size, his weight would 'want' to be at his frame. The further his goal weight would be from his frame, the less likely he'd be able to get there.

QB logic is much better, but the decision algorithm could be improved. Here's an example. If the QB dumps this to the RB right away it's a TD: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/6311#1141045

Question about the concept of a player frame and true speed rating:

When you implement it, if a player loses weight, will his speed and acceleration go up? Will his strength go down?

I ask because right now, if I understand correctly, whenever those attributes are used in calculations they are affected by the player's weight.

(I'm also assuming the acceleration and strength ratings will be "true" if they aren't already.)

Yes, when the speed and acceleration values are displayed relative to weight, when a player gains weight his speed and acceleration will reduce accordingly. Strength is not relative to weight, just speed and acceleration.