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[Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
11/03/2017 7:25 pm
Got enough testing that I'm going to push this for tonight's games:

* Hopefully got rid of the passing out of bounds
* Hopefully got rid of the rocket launch *****
* Throwaways should be significantly reduced
* Added logic to reduce effectiveness of QB swapping
* Modified the QB fatigue logic so it kicks in much later (40 passes)
* I went through each route and modified the pass decision point, so hopefully passes too soon will stop now

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
11/03/2017 7:27 pm
BTW, still looking at some other issues pointed out in the previous thread, but feel free to give additional feedback and even repeat issues that were in the previous version. (I'm keeping the lists from the film studies - which I greatly appreciate)

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By mardn72
11/03/2017 7:28 pm
Thanks JDB. I’ll break down my film again on Sunday. I’ll keep my QBs swapping to test the affect.

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By setherick
11/03/2017 7:29 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
BTW, still looking at some other issues pointed out in the previous thread, but feel free to give additional feedback and even repeat issues that were in the previous version. (I'm keeping the lists from the film studies - which I greatly appreciate)


My IRL software work is keeping me from breaking down film. Will start with tomorrow's game and the new updates.

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By setherick
11/04/2017 7:31 am
(Until 9:00 remaining in the 3Q of my game - mostly a reminder to myself so I can finish reviewing later.)

1) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7246#1309701
a) Not sure what happens to the CB at the bottom of the screen here. He tries to jam and misses, I guess, and gets himself out of position. In general, I've noticed a lot of plays like this when the CB comes up to play B&R. Is this just straight B&R interaction or is this being influenced by stutter.

2) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7246#1309704
a) QB throws the ball before the WR is supposed to make his cut, so the ball is already where it should be when the WR cuts. This is pretty great. The bad thing on this play is the CB has absolutely no idea what to do, and just watches the WR cut, catch, and run away. The CB only has 57 speed, but he has 100s in all cover skills, so I'm not sure why he couldn't stay closer to the WR who has 86 route, 86 speed, and 80 carry - good but not great attributes.

3) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7246#1309714
a) Both RBs splitting out of the backfield are wide open, so of course the QB throws to the double teamed WR downfield. It doesn't matter because the WR supermans the catch in tight coverage. So two things wrong with this play:
*QB makes the wrong decision under pressure, which I'm mostly OK with, but I'm not sure why he doesn't go to one of the RBs as a relief valve.
*Tight coverage doesn't seem to do anything on this play. Shouldn't DBs get a bonus for having double coverage?

4) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7246#1309717
a) QB throws the ball behind the WR allowing the trailing DB to pick it off. This is mostly OK. What it looks like happened though is that the QB threw the ball too early in the route and the WR just kept running past the ball. That seems a bit weird.

5) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7246#1309722 and https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7246#1309723
a) I'm really torn on plays like ths. On one hand, THIS IS EFFING AWESOME. The QB throws right before the WR cuts and the WR cuts right in front of the CB for an easy catch. That's how it's done boys. On the other hand, I'm afraid that DBs are not jumping the route as a way to compensate. In general, plays like this make a spread offense seem like it could be effective now.

6) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7246#1309726
a) First down, no one is open, wide open running lane for 10-20 yards. So of course the QB slings it 30 yards downfield to the WR in double coverage. He of course makes the catch. So two things wrong here:
*QBs are not running anymore or running appropriately when no one is open. England isn't the most athletic, but he'd have gotten 10 yards by running, which is safer than throwing into doulbe cover.
*Double coverage doesn't look like it works still.

7) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7246#1309732
a) This is a running play, but I wanted to point out that the pulling OL are still running past defenders if they aren't directly in front of them. What's it going to take to get better vision for OL?

8) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7246#1309734
a) The RB safety valve is wide open, so let me fling this into triple coverage down field. The WR of course makes the catch.

9) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7246#1309735
a) The indecisive QB returns! I think the QB is tracking the TE on this play. He also should have thrown this away or out of the back of the end zone instead of taking the sack.

10) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7246#1309744
a) Lead DB here needs to jump the route knowing that the guy behind him is in cover position. Also the RB is open, so why throw into double coverage?

11) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7246#1309745
a) Oh come on. That TE has 83 catch. He can catch that one right. Right. :)

12) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7246#1309747
a) QB needs to pitch the ball to to the leading shoulder of the RB, not the back shoulder.

13) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7246#1309751
a) Quadruple coverage?

14) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7246#1309781
a) I don't get the decision here. The RB has the better running lane, but both he and the FB are open at time of the throw, so I can live with it.

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By mwd65
11/04/2017 8:34 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
Got enough testing that I'm going to push this for tonight's games:

* Hopefully got rid of the passing out of bounds
* Hopefully got rid of the rocket launch *****
* Throwaways should be significantly reduced
* Added logic to reduce effectiveness of QB swapping
* Modified the QB fatigue logic so it kicks in much later (40 passes)
* I went through each route and modified the pass decision point, so hopefully passes too soon will stop now


Wanted to give some feedback on QB swapping. Below are stats from 11/4 game in MFN-1. I swap QB's not based on fatigue, but formation. Not sure if the adjustments made would affect this situation.

Name Att Comp Yds Sk/Yd TDs Lng Int Rate
Robert Ligon 27 20 431 0 / 0 6 69 0 155.48
Thomas Montoya 5 5 79 0 / 0 2 38 0 158.33

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By raymattison21
11/04/2017 8:58 am
mwd65 wrote:
jdavidbakr wrote:
Got enough testing that I'm going to push this for tonight's games:

* Hopefully got rid of the passing out of bounds
* Hopefully got rid of the rocket launch *****
* Throwaways should be significantly reduced
* Added logic to reduce effectiveness of QB swapping
* Modified the QB fatigue logic so it kicks in much later (40 passes)
* I went through each route and modified the pass decision point, so hopefully passes too soon will stop now


Wanted to give some feedback on QB swapping. Below are stats from 11/4 game in MFN-1. I swap QB's not based on fatigue, but formation. Not sure if the adjustments made would affect this situation.

Name Att Comp Yds Sk/Yd TDs Lng Int Rate
Robert Ligon 27 20 431 0 / 0 6 69 0 155.48
Thomas Montoya 5 5 79 0 / 0 2 38 0 158.33


I am thinking alot of teams completed a lot of passes. My game had over 80 completion percent . No throw aways or blimp like passes (I want some....not those super lobs , but definitely not lasers all game long) . ...only one pass defended , 4 sacks in almost 100 pass attempts .

Simply said passing is way to easy . I like a lot of things . ....no mlb sacks yet the strong and weak seem to get to the qb instead.....those quick dumps to the RB/ slot/ wr out look ok....the qb seems to be reading the open TE enough

But where's the qb runs ( waggle pass and my qb sits there) the bull rush seems too effective in generating pressure . ...do speed rushers work out of the 4 -3 any more? And are lbs non existent in the passing lanes?

Also I am ready to drop some zone defense vs. This pass logic, but I think that needs a rewrite as well. I will test it , but overall I see an advantage to technical wrs now ( I like that)

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By setherick
11/04/2017 9:40 am
Speed rushers work, but they work like they should. Once they are clear of the OL, they are nearly unstoppable, but in general, ST seems to work better than SP in OL vs DL. And we should be happy about that. :)

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By raymattison21
11/04/2017 10:02 am
setherick wrote:
Speed rushers work, but they work like they should. Once they are clear of the OL, they are nearly unstoppable, but in general, ST seems to work better than SP in OL vs DL. And we should be happy about that. :)


Irl, so many times the speed rusher blows right past the tackle. Here if he's strong enough or a certain amount of time passes then his speed will come in to play. With these quicker passes , how could an end out of the 4-3 be truly effective in blowing right by tackle if now the qb actually releases the ball on time.

Here, I see it like this ....teams blitz . ...the blitz gets picked up ......the fast line men then proceed to chase the qb out of the pocket .

When in reality that happens and it's a scramble/coverage sack. Occurring half of the time. The other half of he time the sack is charged to line men cause he miss read the defense or just got beat .

Here, using my qb in 75 , Cochrane , under the old code, he was sacked 24 times, guess how many were charged to my line....? A mere 5 . Got to be a record .

Under this new code those numbers will be different , bUT which way will the pendulum swing?

My bets are not in the favor of are balanced half coverage sacksand half charged to blockers.

Which in my mind does not favor player like my 250 de w. Bell, in 75. He when for a 40 sacks are year ( which was high) down to a two sack a year player.

The nfl trends are to put edge rushers to counter act these quick passes the nfl uses these days. Most of the sack leaders are re smaller than our sack leaders , because strength is overrated for line play. Not the other way around .

Look at the leaders for us . Fast Mlbs, fast dts, strong des. Speed rules for getting pressure with an all blitz defense

And of all positions overrated in the game is tackle, and it will become more prevalent under this code update. Only because of the adaptation of nerfing the speed rusher seasons ago.

I see no reason for not taking a look at this once this logic normalizes, but I bet it will be tough without taking a good look at how teams are getting to the qb.

Pass drop back time has at least been cut in half . We don't play in are reggie white era anymore, but our game is stuck in one.
Last edited at 11/04/2017 10:05 am

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By setherick
11/04/2017 10:06 am
I still disagree. Speed rushers get demolished in IRL more often than not. If your tackle has a good first step and good punch, he'll dominate most speed rushers. Also, to be fair, most "speed rushers" in the NFL right now are actually bull rushers who are freakishly fast. Mack has the best one arm punch I've ever seen...ever.

I'm liking what I see out of QBs in this update. What I'm not liking is coverage. And QBs throwing completions into double and triple coverage.
Last edited at 11/04/2017 10:06 am