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Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By Beercloud
11/07/2017 1:40 pm
QB's seem to be more fluid this go around. Much improved. I'd like to see a few more games though.

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
11/07/2017 5:43 pm
My test season completed, and I'm very happy with the overall numbers. Watched a little bit of film but not a ton - but enough to decide to push this to tonight's games. Especially those of you in Beta87 let me know if it feels better! Essentially there should be less throwing into tight coverage and hopefully a bit better decision making by the QBs. Also, long passing should not be as effective as it was the last few games.

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By setherick
11/08/2017 10:07 am
Will post detailed observation later, but here are some general things.

1) Face guarding WRs doesn't seem particularly effective even when you have player with high punish. This particularly seems to affect defensive plays where the LB should be playing the zone in front of the WR. The zone defender doesn't recognize the WR come into the zone if the WR is being covered M2M on the outside.

2) DBs stop playing cover and start playing the WR once the ball is thrown. DBs never "play the ball". They end up running parallel to the WR until the WR catches the ball. I noticed this several months ago now, but it's much more apparent now.

3) DL isn't generating enough pressure on QBs. QBs are actually making decisions quicker than the DL can react. I don't know what the solution is to this. I don't want to return to the underweight, all SP DE days, but there isn't enough pressure being generated.

4) B&R is terribly broken, but I have a whole thread about that. I think it's an easy fix too.

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By Ragnulf-le-maudit
11/08/2017 11:48 am
Ball thrown too short, great comeback by the WR (i don't remember seeing that before). Perhaps throwing to the RB would have been a better choice.
https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/965#177060

I've seen a back-shoulder throw (couldn't link it at the time)

It seems that there are less throws in multiple coverage, but tight one-on-one seems inoperant.
Last edited at 11/08/2017 11:50 am

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By setherick
11/08/2017 12:32 pm
Forgot to add this to my list.

5) WRs are still coming back to catch the ball when the QB is trying to throw it away.

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By raymattison21
11/09/2017 10:27 am
I like this logic better , but how can a defense that gets shredded show 16 for 61 in the catch alloweds category while the opposing QB only throws 12 incompletions. I know the defense was very slow and that lack of ability to stay with the recievers could cause this statistical imbalance , because they were no where near them. Or it took three defender's at one time to force those 12 in completions . Idk but it's way off certain games.

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By setherick
11/12/2017 11:20 am
I think this is looking a lot better. I'm still seeing issues with pass rush and coverage though. I've been focusing solely on coverage right now tho.

1) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7290#1317250
a) Here's another play that makes me skeptical about how B&R currently works. Watch the top CB and WR. The CB comes up to jam, gets burned badly, and then can't recover. It's a good play by the WR, but let's break it down a bit and see where this gets problematic for the DB. Here are the stats:

WR
74 SP
56 B&R Avoidance
85 Route

CB
92 Speed
83 B&R
90 M2M

The CB has decent B&R so he has a decent shot at making the right dice roll here. Since he's faster than the WR and he has better B&R than the WRs Avoidance, it makes sense that he'll come up and jam the play. He also has better M2M than the WR has route.

Why does he miss the jam so badly then? He ends up 3 yards behind the play before the play begins. He's better staying in normal cover at that point.

2) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7290#1317259
a) The SS here has 85 punish, but he turns to play the WR instead of playing the ball. As a result, the 66 Courage WR gets an easy catch.

3) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7290#1317321
a) Both the top and bottom go jam their WRs, and both miss badly. Not actually sure what happened here because I can't see what WRs and CBs were involved.

4) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7290#1317323
a) Bad or awesome interaction with the WR chopping his feet and zone defense? WR chops his feet and the CB stops. The WR then cuts back to catch the ball, and the CB drifts back into his zone. The WR is right on the edge of the zone when this happened so I get why the CB goes back to his zone, but should he? Or should he come up in this case? I'm not sure.

5) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7290#1317382
a) CB front guards the WR until the ball is thrown. At that point, the CB turns and plays the WR and not the ball.

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By setherick
11/12/2017 7:32 pm
Notes from the 1Q of my Beta-87 game.

General observations are the same:

1) DBs turn away from the ball once it is in the air and run parallel to the WR that they are guarding.

2) B&R is really driving me nuts. The way it "works" right now means that most of the time the DB makes the wrong decision to B&R. I'm considering whether it needs to be weighted higher than M2M at this point just so DBs make the right choice more often.

1) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/983#180180
a) Both bottom CBs try to jam the WRs and fail horribly. The one that gets burned for the catch has 78 SP and 57 B&R versus a 95 SP and 72 B&R Avoid WR. The CB has average INT, so it makes sense that he'll make some bad decisions occasionally. But as far as I know, B&R is based on the DB's B&R score and a comparison of the DB's SP to the WR's SP. In this case, the WR is much faster so the the B&R roll comes into play and the low B&R score means that the CB fails the roll. This should be rethought. I still think making the decision to play B&R versus coverage should be based on the DB's INT.

2) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/983#180185
a) DB turns to run parallel to the WR instead of playing the ball. If he plays the ball, he should make my QB pay for this bad decision.

3) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/983#180194
a) Same bad B&R decision. DB is slower than the WR and has bad B&R. So the DB decides TO PLAY B&R against the faster WR with better B&R. The DB in this case has 82 INT, so you'd think he'd make a better decision.

4) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/983#180195
a) Same bad B&R logic from the DB that gets burned for the TD. DB has 100 INT.

5) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/983#180196
a) LB doesn't play the ball at all on this 2 point conversion.

6) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/983#180203
a) Bad B&R logic, but somehow the CB actually engages with the WR that is going to catch the ball here. He stays in B&R UNTIL the ball is throw at which point he DISENGAGES AND PLAYS THE WR. Sigh... This is why we can't have nice things.

7) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/983#180205
a) A lesson in how not to play B&R in the inside WRs. The outside interaction is OK. If the DB would play the ball ever, it'd be nicer.

8) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/983#180209
a) Another bad B&R decision by the CB leaves the WR wide open in the end zone.

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By raymattison21
11/12/2017 7:37 pm
I value b and R highly when the CB has high speed. Mann seems to not matter as much in that senerio. Especially when the blitz is on and the qb is under pressure . .....those CBs (combined with intelligence ) become play makers. Add in years of experience (over he young guy) and interceptions are the result.

Re: [Feature] Updated QB Logic rev. 2

By setherick
11/12/2017 7:55 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
I value b and R highly when the CB has high speed. Mann seems to not matter as much in that senerio. Especially when the blitz is on and the qb is under pressure . .....those CBs (combined with intelligence ) become play makers. Add in years of experience (over he young guy) and interceptions are the result.


I look at it as an attribute, but it shouldn't determine whether the DB is going to B&R on a play. Because that's what's leading to such awful play out the outside while in M2M.