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Main - Beta Chat

Re: Beta update release

By raymattison21
4/08/2018 1:13 pm
Another thing to consider is how perfect qbs hit these deep passes in stride so the wr can continue full speed for big yards after the catch . If the wr had to adjust/ jump to make the catch he would change speed in doing so . On the ones where he slowed down he db would catch right up with him. I don't see that enough . It either short long or perfect. No matter the distance the pass travels in the air .

Re: Beta update release

By Smirt211
4/08/2018 5:55 pm
If I may make a comment here. I've noticed that there's been definite changes in the leagues with long passing and defensive player behavior. I believe it has been reined in pretty significantly when you're utilizing a rather normal game plan compared to what it was previously with PA Streaks running open every other series for sonic boom touchdowns.

I would caution that you're getting atypical results in beta testing in terms of having someone throw long pass after long pass every single play as it doesn't replicate what a true MFN contest looks like or the rhythm of the game.

Wouldn't the true combat to this be the AI game system realizing 'oh hey, there's no subtefuge in this game planning or diversity - it's all pass long' and poof it stops working somewhere in the middle of the game. Sort of how QBs hit a pitch count, tire and the passing goes to the wayside.

Ray is rearing back every play and code breaking with 3 attempts each series if it's 3 and out or 6 if he gets the first down vs. a normal game plan that is much less in frequency.

Passing has definitely been reined in from where it used to be; strides made.
Last edited at 4/08/2018 5:59 pm

Re: Beta update release

By Smirt211
4/08/2018 6:33 pm
The code breaking is excellent in terms of identification and sussing out what needs to be addressed, which has already been done with steps taken. But don't analyze these results and come to the realization that passing needs to be dialed all the way back because these are heightened results done with a game plan no player really employs.



Re: Beta update release

By setherick
4/09/2018 6:52 am
raymattison21 wrote:
Another thing to consider is how perfect qbs hit these deep passes in stride so the wr can continue full speed for big yards after the catch .



But that's not the problem. Your Beta-87 game clearly illustrates my point above. The no more dive tackles "fix" should be reverted immediately, and the "I don't cover my man after the route ends" needs to be fixed. Alternatively, revert the no more dive tackles "fix" and pull stutter step logic from 0.4.3.

1) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1654#302249
a) CB does nothing once the WR catches the ball ends up several steps behind the WR.

2) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1654#302257
a) This one is really bad. DB does a good job jamming the WR until the WR catches the ball, and then the CB just stops.

3) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1654#302267
a) Stutter stepping ends the route so the DB stops covering. DB has 76 M2M in this case.

4) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1654#302315
a) CB does nothing once the WR catches the ball.

5) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1654#302364
a) Stutter stepping ends the route so the CB stops covering. He's just closer to the play this time because the WR is the only one around for him to "cover".

Re: Beta update release

By raymattison21
4/09/2018 8:00 am
setherick wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
Another thing to consider is how perfect qbs hit these deep passes in stride so the wr can continue full speed for big yards after the catch .



But that's not the problem. Your Beta-87 game clearly illustrates my point above. The no more dive tackles "fix" should be reverted immediately, and the "I don't cover my man after the route ends" needs to be fixed. Alternatively, revert the no more dive tackles "fix" and pull stutter step logic from 0.4.3.

1) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1654#302249
a) CB does nothing once the WR catches the ball ends up several steps behind the WR.

he starts pulling away before. Probably man vs route. Perfect pass right in stride .

2) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1654#302257
a) This one is really bad. DB does a good job jamming the WR until the WR catches the ball, and then the CB just stops.

looks like a broken tackle

3) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1654#302267
a) Stutter stepping ends the route so the DB stops covering. DB has 76 M2M in this case.

that's a cover 2 zone. Perfect offensive play call that shows how bad zone is.

4) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1654#302315
a) CB does nothing once the WR catches the ball.

idk what's going on but it looks as he is stopping to go for the pick or knock it down

5) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1654#302364
a) Stutter stepping ends the route so the CB stops covering. He's just closer to the play this time because the WR is the only one around for him to "cover".

that was the seventh time he called a double safety blitz . His cb is worse in every category so combine it with the play abuse penalty and he should get beat because it was a good offensive call


I am not defending this code but I thought the defense should have to respect my teams ability to throw it deep. They did not. Our game in one you did not either (over 65 % of calls were blitz).

Other than that it doesn't matter if a plan with 30 different plays or 4 different plays it is clear deep passing it off. To me it cause of the value of man and route are too strong.

Same goes for call carry. Or all positions should be generated with some. ( that another thread)

Run block is pretty worthless as well. And safeties getting in right,position would stop alot of deep passes .

What I don't like is 70 speed 100 catch route courage beating 95 speed 95 plus man punish defenders all game long with the same deep passing approach . If it were medium and short passes I would be OK but it is the long pass that is broke. It's not like I was leaving them on an island with a blitz like abross did in this game or what you did vs. Me in that mfn one game.

To me that's the man vs. Route rolls having too much of an effect . 70 speed 90 route should be handled by 90 speed 70 man. The wr will win most of the time (in an one on one)

If wrs had to slow down to adjust to ***** dbs would be in full stride and at least tackle them. Not just get torched . ...that db had 96 spd 96acl and my wr had 95sp 95acl but he had 99 carry . Carry is so valueable right now dbs a rarely taking interceptions back for tds. They used to alot.

Like I said i am not defending this code, but this is the first time I forever I had to lower my blitz counts. Experiments done I have achieved success with numbers as low achieves lows 18 percent and this game numbers closer to 45% .

Other guys are winning with higher numbers (infinity ) but you know he loves speed. So, him and I will meet in 87. (If he's still there) as my 87 team is better at zone but it's worthless and my mfn one team is almost perfectly build to expose the 4.3 code .

Note. I am not completely happy with the dump off code either. It inflates completion % , because I think short passing (-5 yards to + 5 yards is still too weak) as a lot of my opponents throw to the backs over half of the time.



Re: Beta update release

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
4/09/2018 8:37 am
I'm still figuring out why the deep passing came back so strong, I think I've found the culprit but am still doing internal testing to see if I'm right. I don't have stable code that fixes it that I can push to beta just yet.

The diving tackle logic is this: if the ballcarrier's speed is faster than our max speed, we attempt a diving tackle. The problem with the DBs doing it so quickly was that at the point the ball was caught the WR was already faster than the DB could go so immediately he's out of reach. When there were 2 DBs in that case they both went into the diving tackle, so the fix was to add a random delay before a player would enter the diving tackle once the WR caught the ball. This delay is why you now see some DBs that just trail behind the WR where they would have previously attempted a diving tackle.

Re: Beta update release

By setherick
4/09/2018 8:41 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
The problem with the DBs doing it so quickly was that at the point the ball was caught the WR was already faster than the DB could go so immediately he's out of reach.


Why is this a "problem"? This is a DB getting burned on a play where the WR got behind him. This is also proving my point that the random delay is now just causing DBs to stop and let WRs accelerate past them. Also, when the DBs were doing is quickly, they made a lot more deep tackles...sigh.

Re: Beta update release

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
4/09/2018 8:51 am
setherick wrote:
jdavidbakr wrote:
The problem with the DBs doing it so quickly was that at the point the ball was caught the WR was already faster than the DB could go so immediately he's out of reach.


Why is this a "problem"? This is a DB getting burned on a play where the WR got behind him. This is also proving my point that the random delay is now just causing DBs to stop and let WRs accelerate past them. Also, when the DBs were doing is quickly, they made a lot more deep tackles...sigh.


The problem was the visual issue where it would appear that all DBs would just suddenly stop as soon as the WR caught the ball.

Maybe it's not the right solution, but I do feel like a missed diving tackle appearing that way is a problem.

Re: Beta update release

By setherick
4/09/2018 8:55 am
Why let a visual inconsistency that is easily explained in game and code terms cause a larger functional problem with the code?

Re: Beta update release

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
4/09/2018 9:01 am
setherick wrote:
Why let a visual inconsistency that is easily explained in game and code terms cause a larger functional problem with the code?


Well, my thinking is that in real life the DBs don't always immediately attempt a diving tackle. Like I said, it may not be the proper response, which is why it's in beta and why your pushback is valuable.