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Main - Beta Chat

Re: Beta update release

By raymattison21
4/09/2018 12:06 pm
I am still trying to figure out what is so strong about deep passing . Yes, coverage is ugly at times (because that man to route roll is too sensitive ) but my opponent had an elite qb/wr and the went sub 30 % on deep passes to wrs. My cbs are B rated at best.

Deep passing is a little overpowered at best. Well compared to old codes. Dbs and wrs always are drafted first under any release .

It's the play match ups that are making the difference now . Take out the dive attempt and see if the escort comes back. I would rather the escort be there always or allow it to kick after five yards after the ball carrier touches the ball.

Right now for coverage the real problem and it lies in the man to route rolls . An elite LB with 60 man coverage is left in the dust . It's dissapointing but I am ok with that....he's now an edge rusher.

Re: Beta update release

By setherick
4/09/2018 12:29 pm
Before the CBs don't dive tackle fix was implemented, I had no problems with deep passing with my 60 SP, 100 M2M corners. Occasionally, they got beat, but most of the time they pushed 100 RR with better SP WRs down the field and made a lot of TD saving tackles when the WR caught the ball a step ahead of them. I saw the CB miss so few of these tackles that I was telling people that it was a good thing that occasionally the CB got beat because it was more realistic. After that code change, I just planned on throwing deep every down if 0.4.3 went live with it.

Re: Beta update release

By raymattison21
4/09/2018 2:25 pm
setherick wrote:
Before the CBs don't dive tackle fix was implemented, I had no problems with deep passing with my 60 SP, 100 M2M corners. Occasionally, they got beat, but most of the time they pushed 100 RR with better SP WRs down the field and made a lot of TD saving tackles when the WR caught the ball a step ahead of them. I saw the CB miss so few of these tackles that I was telling people that it was a good thing that occasionally the CB got beat because it was more realistic. After that code change, I just planned on throwing deep every down if 0.4.3 went live with it.


No arguments there, but i still wish a 100 SP 60 man cb was able to stay deep with a 60 man 100 RR wr. Yes lose him in the short to meduim routes but if that cb has good bump and run he should be able to cover deeper routes/ recover in time .

Lbs are acting the same way ....TEs just leave them in the dust .50 speed TEs .! I just don't like the balance . ...the whole new system is so sensitive the value of an elite CB just got knocked down a huge peg cause speed was so devalued .

I would be OK with a 80 speed cb acting like a 100 speed (pending 100 man) but not a 60speed db not be liable to deep pass exploits .(unless he had deep help) I think we are close but there still not enough speed in the leagues .

Julio Jones average depth of target was over 14 yards for a reason He's elite. In mfn one My wrs are at around 25+. No matter who they face. , but certain combos of plays and keys seem to stop it. Under this current bugged code.

If this were released and you threw deep everytime defenses(users) would be forced to adjust gameplans . I have seen little to no adjustments by users(who faced me recently ) in the beta leagues . Blitzes over half of the time by most . Some nearly ten times a game. Or they still use zone(severely broke on deep coverage )

I would love to see what some other would come up with Defensively. Cause the current code in all leagues is still dictated by that deep,pass and a heavy blitz defense . I am sick of that. Losing due to 80 speed cbs or blitzes killing the run.

50% catch rates and leading the league in recieving yards is aburd, but its in current leagues. The new code exposes this fact of the game. With 30 yard plus yards per catch by dozens of wr1s in beta.

This release would force alot more deep coverage to be applied opening up a lot more football. By that I mean realistic blitz rates.

The HB check down seem to come quick at times....have that qb rollout to find open guys and do a second progression run through of recievers . Fix deep zone cause I am not seeing much wrong with deep solo man coverage when blitzes are applied and the wrong keys. (Except for that delay nonsense, and the power of RR is a bit too valueable on deep routes and invisible on the rest)



Re: Beta update release

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
4/09/2018 3:54 pm
I'll remove the diving tackle delay. I'm still looking at the completion issues, but I probably won't make any more changes until the season ends, which is a bummer that this didn't get resolved in time. On the other hand, I'm glad this didn't get released with the long pass being overpowered...

Re: Beta update release

By setherick
4/09/2018 5:23 pm
raymattison21 wrote:

If this were released and you threw deep everytime defenses(users) would be forced to adjust gameplans . I have seen little to no adjustments by users(who faced me recently ) in the beta leagues . Blitzes over half of the time by most . Some nearly ten times a game. Or they still use zone(severely broke on deep coverage )


You put up 100 on my 90% base M2M defense that had been giving up 20 a game in the four previous games. My defense had garbage LBs, but three solid if slow CBs. In those four previous games, I gave up maybe one or two missed dive tackle TD against fast WRs. That's why I gave up on that code change...and beta testing 0.4.3. Because I thought we were close to stable, even with the stutter stepping breaking the routes, I didn't want to start over with testing.

UPDATE: Oh, never mind, the stupid play calling bug apparently reappeared that game too. It should have been 90% M2M. Instead it was blitz every down that wasn't a long down. Good grief.
Last edited at 4/09/2018 5:25 pm

Re: Beta update release

By mardn72
4/10/2018 11:47 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
I'll remove the diving tackle delay. I'm still looking at the completion issues, but I probably won't make any more changes until the season ends, which is a bummer that this didn't get resolved in time. On the other hand, I'm glad this didn't get released with the long pass being overpowered...


I know you don't like making changes in the playoffs to preserve the integrity of them, but does anyone think that watching New Orleans call the same three long passes all playoffs and put up 100 points a game is ok? Ray is doing that to improve the game, but having last post season determined by an exploit is bad enough. I'd like to push to try and fix it for this one.

Re: Beta update release

By setherick
4/10/2018 11:48 am
I skimmed through the game log of Ray's game. One of the major issues with that game was that the defense called short zones on a majority of those long throws. Short zones get torched because the CBs don't trail their man. So while long passing is still overpowered, I wouldn't go too much on that game.

Re: Beta update release

By raymattison21
4/10/2018 12:18 pm
setherick wrote:
I skimmed through the game log of Ray's game. One of the major issues with that game was that the defense called short zones on a majority of those long throws. Short zones get torched because the CBs don't trail their man. So while long passing is still overpowered, I wouldn't go too much on that game.


Thanks for actually looking in to this deeper than the score. None of it was worth anything except how mutilated the game veiwer and stats get from the abuse Penalty.

At least dozen dropped wide pass and over 20 passes knocked down for one team.

Jdb. Please do away with the play abuse penalty . Add in game adjustments or audibles .

Heck try just having the penalty for blitzes only....at a very high level . So high that nobody is blitzing over half he time and winning.

If a good plan cannot stop long passes then add a weaker penalty for that .

As a general note it is was four offensive plays and when my team went to unabused plays they did horrible . And that don't forget about the three defensive plays that I use....they are killing it even more than the offense
Last edited at 4/10/2018 12:32 pm

Re: Beta update release

By raymattison21
4/11/2018 6:50 am
https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1659#302867

A slight difference in route vs man ends up a ten yard blown coverage . Way too sensitive

Re: Beta update release

By setherick
4/11/2018 6:57 am
raymattison21 wrote:
https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1659#302867

A slight difference in route vs man ends up a ten yard blown coverage . Way too sensitive


Just skimming the log. That play doesn't bother me as much as this one: https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1659#302826

The one Ray posted is bad because the MLB blows the coverage so bad he doesn't know if he's supposed to cover the TE or the RB (the WR4 vs the WR5). That seems like a straight up bug.

The one I'm posting is a broken interaction between stutter and M2M still. The stutter ends the route, so the DB stops covering. The WR then starts running the same route again, but since the DB stops covering, the DB has to locate a man to cover and then try to catch up, but it's too late.

Why do DB's leave their man at all when the route ends? This was, and still is, awful in 0.4.x. It's worse in 0.4.3.