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Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By setherick
9/09/2020 8:37 am
I have said this multiple times, and been ignored, but there would be no complaints with 4.5 passing if receivers didn't drop every pass that was thrown more than 10 yards down the field.

The only reason that nerf was put into place was because Ray figured out how to burn bad DBs by running long routes. It wasn't indicative of a major problem, and yet, two years later, the nerf remains.

And now that sacks are going to be reduced to nil, the nerf will be just that much more apparent.
Last edited at 9/09/2020 8:38 am

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By raymattison21
9/09/2020 6:07 pm
setherick wrote:
I have said this multiple times, and been ignored, but there would be no complaints with 4.5 passing if receivers didn't drop every pass that was thrown more than 10 yards down the field.

The only reason that nerf was put into place was because Ray figured out how to burn bad DBs by running long routes. It wasn't indicative of a major problem, and yet, two years later, the nerf remains.

And now that sacks are going to be reduced to nil, the nerf will be just that much more apparent.


but, zone is not good enough in any version....or man is overpowered.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By setherick
9/09/2020 6:10 pm
Removing a nerf that makes people mad is one line of code. Fixing zone requires rewriting much of the game engine. In terms of a value proposition, it seems like an obvious choice.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By raymattison21
9/09/2020 6:11 pm
setherick wrote:
Infinity on Trial wrote:
My opponent and I combined to go 40/91 with 4 INTs. I averaged 4 yards per pass play; he averaged 5.34. A fifth interception was overturned by penalty. The game log shows 30 passes knocked down.

But hey — no sacks! Or punt blocks, despite my best efforts.


Not completing downfield passes and not getting any sacks? It sounds like coverage is just completely broken -- which doesn't really surprise me since I pointed this out five months ago: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/community/1/6356?page=1#39069


This is the 4.5 passing code. Months ago had zone weaks as well and pass bocking was not touched then either.

It s 4.5 That was always broke.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By raymattison21
9/09/2020 6:14 pm
setherick wrote:
Removing a nerf that makes people mad is one line of code. Fixing zone requires rewriting much of the game engine. In terms of a value proposition, it seems like an obvious choice.


It was out months ago...or much less. Low accuracy QBs had higher completion rates. Same as Qbs coming off the bench. Accuracy is still too overpowered but drops are too high

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
9/09/2020 8:19 pm
setherick wrote:
Removing a nerf that makes people mad is one line of code. Fixing zone requires rewriting much of the game engine. In terms of a value proposition, it seems like an obvious choice.


There is no "nerf" - there is a reduced probability for longer passes to be completed, which I think is what you are referring to here. Without a reduced probability for long passes to be completed, there is no reason to not just go all out in a long passing game.

That said, it may be too strong, and I can give you that. I want to look over the stats after this season with the most recent game engine code and see what kind of completion rate range, yards per attempt, and overall passing yards we are getting. If the experience is that it is too low, I can try to improve completion rates for longer passes in the next season, and we can delay the release of 0.4.6 until this gets resolved. Is the low completion rate a show stopper?

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By setherick
9/09/2020 8:27 pm
It is way too strong. Here is the top 10 plays by YPC (all from non-beta leagues) from my database with >= 10 attempts and >= 50% completion:

I Formation Big Streak Heavy Long
I Formation Normal FL Hitch Short
I Formation 3WR Deep Corner/Post Long
Weak I Normal All Go Long
Singleback Normal HB Release Mid Medium
Strong I Big TE Deep Corner Long
Singleback Normal All Go Long
I Formation Power PA Flats Short
I Formation Normal SE Post Long
Strong I Big TE Post Medium

Note that most of these plays go to the RB out of the backfield, except for the Hitch, which is broken in so many other ways.
Last edited at 9/09/2020 8:28 pm

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By Infinity on Trial
9/09/2020 8:42 pm
I am not opposed to pushing this release now and working toward another short-term update, but I do think we'll see less than desirable passing results. My experience in the forums is that people here are obsessed with passing production.

In 4.5, the passing production is propped up by a handful of boom/bust plays like the FL Hitch, inexperienced GMs, and extreme disparities in speed (I still don't understand why any DB or WR is slower than any DL or OL). Over the course of a season, you can get the yardage and TDs you want. But any game against a good GM is going to result in a sorry looking box score.

So I don't know how to "fix" that, I don't know about the deep "nerf," and I don't know why we're seeing such poor results here. But I suspect the short and medium results won't go over well.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By setherick
9/09/2020 9:04 pm
There is also the illogical problems with game planning that you run into with 4.5. Right now, my game plan is completely inverted. I call Medium passes when I would call Short passes because the effective "medium" plays get fewer yards per play than the effective Short passes.

The effective Short passes all rely on slant routes, short go routes, or sending the FB on a wheel route. The slant routes are just busted, and I have no idea why. (Really, the FL Hitch performs out of this world good against 90% of all defensive plays.) The short go routes are inconsistent, but game breakers when the QB goes that way. And the FB wheel routes are breaking the game because folks have figured out they can put a 95 SP WR in the FB spot and get 2500 yards a season running the Twins Slot Out (true story).

Not to mention that you need an advanced degree in statistics to figure out how to get pressure on the QB.
Last edited at 9/09/2020 9:05 pm

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By Infinity on Trial
9/09/2020 9:09 pm
This is outside the scope of 4.6, but I would volunteer to draw up some new plays or otherwise contribute to a playbook overhaul. (I have some other ideas, like unlocking the entire universe of plays but giving players a boost in learning them if they align with the HC/OC/DC philosophy.)

To seth's point: There are underlying problems with the way passing works that need to be addressed eventually. An upward tweak of the completion percentages might be a viable bandaid.