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Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By TheAdmiral
9/10/2020 6:18 pm
setherick wrote:
The idea of Beta is to push the sim to and beyond breaking point, which in turn leads to 'distorted' data and analysis. 4.5 has become dated and stale and people are ready for a new update with new wrinkles. If you want to wait until it's perfect, the game will be stuck in 4.5 forever.


This is a problem. If people aren't playing the game in beta like they would in a non-beta league, there is no validation testing going on at all.


Then we view things differently. As far as I know, beta is for testing the software to find bugs and glitches before it goes live. In essence, to find loopholes so they can be closed off prior to release.

For an instance, I converted my whole D to CB's and Safeties last season and ran blitzes or zone defense for my secondary on every down and distance (no m2m). Team was 0-6 when I took over.

The 'test' showed that blitzing with lightweight speed guys against the run produced a high level of TFL and a high level of 8-10 yard gains with little in between.

As the team became lighter they did get pushed around more on the line (which was good) and afaik this helped (a little) in the improvements to blocking in general.

This is not a strategy I would run in a regular league. I wanted to highlight that speed and blocking needed to be tweaked.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By setherick
9/10/2020 6:21 pm
A good testing strategy employs both exploratory testing and validation testing. The problem is that there is not enough automated testing happening to simulate the exploratory testing that folks are doing in the beta leagues, which means that all of the validation testing is happening once code is released.

To be clear, there should be no reason why code is getting to beta with the loopholes that it has. It should be easy enough to create automated tests on the server side that simulate full games of X weight player versus Y weight player for pass blocking -- just to use an example.

Beta should be user validation testing in my opinion.
Last edited at 9/10/2020 6:22 pm

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By Infinity on Trial
9/11/2020 8:49 am
My opponent completed 20/38 (52.6%) for 201 (5.9 average) and an INT. Take away his 48-yard completion, and he's barely averaging 4 yards per pass.

I completed 27/40, a whopping 67.5% completion rate, for just 222 yards. Take away my 57-yarder, and I'm also down near 4 yards per attempt.

But hey, no sacks! And no punt blocks! (Although my 100 accuracy, 100 strength kicker with an 89 holder missed a 45-yard FG)

Passes: 78
Completions: 47
Knockdowns: 22
Drops: 4
INTs: 1
Other incompletions: 4

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By raymattison21
9/11/2020 9:37 am
Infinity on Trial wrote:
My opponent completed 20/38 (52.6%) for 201 (5.9 average) and an INT. Take away his 48-yard completion, and he's barely averaging 4 yards per pass.

I completed 27/40, a whopping 67.5% completion rate, for just 222 yards. Take away my 57-yarder, and I'm also down near 4 yards per attempt.

But hey, no sacks! And no punt blocks! (Although my 100 accuracy, 100 strength kicker with an 89 holder missed a 45-yard FG)

Passes: 78
Completions: 47
Knockdowns: 22
Drops: 4
INTs: 1
Other incompletions: 4



https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/11960#2229777

Here is the TD pass against you. My issue is first with the FS. Playing shallow he drops into perfect position, and right when the pass is thrown the FS bolts out of position to make a play .....leaving the WR a clear shot for the end zone.

The FS has 92 speed and 64 zone but my bets are none of these ratings are why he jumped that route so bad. The safeties are the last line of defense and should almost never attempt to make a play here.

The 2nd issue is the WR CB interaction near the time of the throw. 85 route to 90 man and DB seems to get lost at the cut in the route? A little shimmy (100 bump) by the WR earlier did nothing to the CB playing cushion (78 bump) as he awaits the WRs first cut.

Here’s the misunderstanding from me...93 speed 88 acceleration for the WR and 91 speed and 77 acceleration for the CB and watching the cut in super slow motion the WR gains ground... maybe acceleration but if you watch the DB near the 40 yards line it’s almost as if he stops or slows considerably allowing for several feet of distance between them and for some reason the DB can’t run down the WR despite the 7 less pounds.

The main issue is that split second loss of ground right before the pass gets there. Why did he no continue his rate of speed? 11 points or acceleration? 2 points of speed? Or what I think it was the 85 ball carry.

Maybe there’s something in the code to help with yards after the catch related to ball carry? I know intelligence does something and the WRs is decent so maybe it’s a combo of the two?

But if you watch a lot of plays do this . Close ratings like this should not matter but it was the same thing I had exploited years ago with the deep passes. The DBs just stopped/ slowed for no reason at all .

The bigger issue is the FS as my 100s across the board in relevant skills jump routes like this all too often but plays like the slant and end route scenarios the best DBs look clueless for that split second like this one.



Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By Smirt211
9/11/2020 9:44 am
I'll read in a second but it's route, avoidance and speed coupled with a pass play which can do damage. Something has to hit....!

The swoop and connect-go is due to potent route/avoidance and then the pistol firing to the TD is the speed.


right when the pass is thrown the FS bolts out of position to make a play .....leaving the WR a clear shot for the end zone.


Good. If it was perfection nothing would hit. Probably skewed that way due to the WR winning the dice roll over the safety.

Also, this is a feast or famine play: Split Backs 3 Wide WR Quick Out. It can hit beautifully but also (and especially if leaned upon) it'll fire to the straight away route for interceptions. It's a risk/reward play.

Last edited at 9/11/2020 9:52 am

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By Smirt211
9/11/2020 9:49 am
Ball carry -

It plays out like this. Upon the catch if your WR is 85+ like in this case he'll scoot for the touchdown.

Nicholas Rodriguez (Legends League) has circa 65 so he's prone to being tracked down. Lesser you get with ball carry you'll have the putter outs and track downs. Closer to 100 - it's bang - explosion touchdown upon the catch if a clean space to the end zone.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By raymattison21
9/11/2020 11:56 am
Smirt211 wrote:
Ball carry -

It plays out like this. Upon the catch if your WR is 85+ like in this case he'll scoot for the touchdown.

Nicholas Rodriguez (Legends League) has circa 65 so he's prone to being tracked down. Lesser you get with ball carry you'll have the putter outs and track downs. Closer to 100 - it's bang - explosion touchdown upon the catch if a clean space to the end zone.


Yes , I have another play where the SS jumped a route in the slot gave up a bit of ground to the wr , then he could not track him down . The numbers were an 87 speed SS and a 79 speed WR with 100 carry. Carry is a potent rating.

So, potent I am theorizing it slows the DB down a split second before the WR even touches the ball . Another factor that is not very intuitive but in super slow motion at about the 40 yard line you will see the DB continue to lose ground in coverage.

At that point in the code (when the DB is near the 40yard line) only speed and acceleration are at play and the difference here is minute. There was considerable ground lost. Did he go for a knockdown ? Slip a little? Or is something else at play?

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By TheAdmiral
9/11/2020 11:59 am
Infinity on Trial wrote:
My opponent completed 20/38 (52.6%) for 201 (5.9 average) and an INT. Take away his 48-yard completion, and he's barely averaging 4 yards per pass.

I completed 27/40, a whopping 67.5% completion rate, for just 222 yards. Take away my 57-yarder, and I'm also down near 4 yards per attempt.

But hey, no sacks! And no punt blocks! (Although my 100 accuracy, 100 strength kicker with an 89 holder missed a 45-yard FG)

Passes: 78
Completions: 47
Knockdowns: 22
Drops: 4
INTs: 1
Other incompletions: 4




I thought I'd have a little look into passing stats over the last 5 seasons in MFN-1. Completion% this season 2048 is up approx 10% on each of the four previous seasons, with the top 12 teams in 2048 posting the top 12 completion percentages over the last five years.

This is the first area I've looked at and over the weekend I'll look at yards/attempt, yards for, yards against, TD's, Interceptions and Sacks. Then I'll look at comparing these against the first season of Victory (Beta), six seasons of Legends (all 4.5), a well established roster only League (probably UFA and one other) and perhaps the last 5 years of another well established league that's generally full with good quality owners (Champions maybe?) and one which has struggled for owners ie a high percentage of AI ownership (suggestions?) to give us a better idea of whether this is anecdotal/outlier or a general trend.

It'll take me some time to do it (over the course of the weekend) but you can see where I'm up too by clicking on this link.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13orAbhEFkdLcvtO6dNiucuyer4LoeY32ZaNuhTIrCxM/edit?usp=sharing

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By raymattison21
9/11/2020 12:06 pm
Smirt211 wrote:
I'll read in a second but it's route, avoidance and speed coupled with a pass play which can do damage. Something has to hit....!

The swoop and connect-go is due to potent route/avoidance and then the pistol firing to the TD is the speed.


right when the pass is thrown the FS bolts out of position to make a play .....leaving the WR a clear shot for the end zone.


Good. If it was perfection nothing would hit. Probably skewed that way due to the WR winning the dice roll over the safety.

Also, this is a feast or famine play: Split Backs 3 Wide WR Quick Out. It can hit beautifully but also (and especially if leaned upon) it'll fire to the straight away route for interceptions. It's a risk/reward play.



I get the CB losing the bump roll but he’s not in bump anyway . The FS should be positioning himself in that deep half of the field. For one, he could have over pursued to the sideline, which most do in this code ( in a one or two deep) but the quicker throw was right at the FS until he chose to jump 5 yards behind the WR. Plenty of 100 zone defenders do the same....

A great QB which this one was not would have snuck it in between the beat CB and under the Saftey. Like I said on most occasions, not all the time, but most of time in our code the guys are going for big plays like this and allowing TDs instead of staying deep. Then If completed , without any YAC, this play should have been 20 to 30 yards.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By Smirt211
9/11/2020 12:29 pm
Okay, I can see that but then if the opposition was in run key it hits for exactly how we saw it play out.

I've experimented with this play and I use it sometimes and as something I do. If you click wrong with it, chemistry is off - it constantly flings it to the GO route for lightning interceptions.

I'm fine with an offensive play running the gamut in produced results. Just don't want a consistent gridlock where you can't get it to hit for a large yardage amount.