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Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Infinity on Trial
10/10/2020 6:00 pm
Has there been a documented sack by a LB from a non-GL set anywhere? It looks like DEs are just getting a free shot on the QB, who is rushing the throw to compensate.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/10/2020 6:06 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
Has there been a documented sack by a LB from a non-GL set anywhere? It looks like DEs are just getting a free shot on the QB, who is rushing the throw to compensate.



You can get sacks with LBers. We did get one pressure last game. In Victory my LBs are doing well but not in comparison to Ends or fast DTs.

Most my LB heat is out of the 3-4. Even that base call where SLB is coming . I don’t think it’s penalized but the LG has to come over on most plays to block him and if the LB Is fast good luck.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Infinity on Trial
10/10/2020 6:37 pm
Can you point me to an example of a LB recording a sack?

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/10/2020 7:12 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
Can you point me to an example of a LB recording a sack?


Howard Parmenter (WLB) @cin (W) ATL
Howard Douglas (SLB) GBY (L) CLE
James Cone (MLB) WAS (W) NYA
Edmond Coleman (CB) SEA (L) HOU
Robert Darby (FS) @hou (W) SEA
John Isbell (MLB) ATL (L) CIN
Rudy Baker (CB) @ind (W) NOS

You'll have to look them up to see if they're from Goal line sets - these are the recorded sacks from non DL in MFN-1 Week 1 PS

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/10/2020 8:52 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
Can you point me to an example of a LB recording a sack?



https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/411#76144


This one was a SS playing WLB. That same game had the SLB in 3-4 man cover 1 get 3 hurries and 1 sack. He has near elite speed the SS is fast as well.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/11/2020 3:52 am
There's a LB in Victory with 6 sacks through 3 weeks of the season.

Five in one game, all off different plays.

I would add that was in week 1, sacks have gradually eased week by week.

They're obviously too high for DL right now but continuing to evolve towards the required/acceptable level. What that is, I don't know.

My general feeling is that sacks are higher towards the end of each half and ramp up in 'hurry up' / two minute drills (which you would expect, just not to this level)

Pre-season is awkward as it involves so many fringe players/non starters. Throw in people experimenting with different strategies and new plays and you can get odd results.

As an example, we rest a lot of guaranteed starters in week 1 of pre-season. We're also using just 3 sets on D to get a look at different plays - 3 deep zone, 4 deep zone and corner blitz in PSGW1. We also focused a lot on 5WR, and both 14 sets as we haven't used plays from those three sets in several seasons.

Getting back to the point, by the time we get to week 1 of regular season we'll be closer to where it should be.

In the meantime what do we see as 'normal' sack levels for a league gameweek, what % of that should be DL, LB and DB.

I'd suggest somewhere between 4 and 6 per game (not team) with outliers on both sides. So around 65-100 sacks across each gameweek (1,000-1,600 over a season) split approx 60/25/15 between DL/LB/DB that sounds like a lot to me but is somewhere between 30 and 50 team sacks per year - is that right?

People have asked why I'm analysing the data. I'm trying to assess whether the game is playing as expected league wide as it seems to me that just focusing on your own team and plays in your own game is best left to the likes of Ray who have a better understanding of what individual plays are supposed to do.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/11/2020 6:24 am
I checked Vincent out in week 1 and his big game was playing 237 pounds at LDE . That why some of my comments were focused on the speed part of the pass rushing algorithm. The interesting part about Vincent is his pass rushing skill. He does have the skills.

Even the true LBs who get most of the sacks are lined up on the line in the 3-4. They are a de in that formation. Mlbs and haze 4-3 probably can get there too but they have to travel a bit further. I see a 96 speeding dB playing mlb might work, cause even though the blitz carries the overuse penalties speed is what gets you to the QBs quick.

Like that pa rollout play...9 step drop let that safety come down .They still got a sack after heavy overuse. Like my cb Baker playing at FS his speed is what got him there for a cover sack....one after 3 seconds.

Just like man and bump can slow down receivers ...run block and pass rush should change the angles of pursuit. So the fast guys some So the offense has time to get into position . That’s how overuse should work as the other guy is becoming more aware same play.

Vincent would not have mattered as he had great skill too. But infinity is talking about LBer blitzing only. And the sack ratios are Off within the positions on long passes. Completion rates vs blitzing is wacky too but these are things that have always been here

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Infinity on Trial
10/11/2020 9:00 am
I haven't looked at every game, but I've only seen one sack by a LB from the LB position. He was the SLB in a 3-4 defense, which means he was lined up where the RDE would be in a 4-3, and the DT2 flushed the QB out of the pocket and into a sack.

So what we're seeing is:

Blitzes still don't work

DL are getting way too much pressure

Speedy LB/DB still dominate at DE

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/11/2020 12:30 pm
I am not sure about the speedy LB thing facing guys head up. This guy is 228 pounds and plays LDE

Speed 88
Acceleration 48
Strength 29
Intelligence 65
Discipline 93
Tackle Ability 73/77
Strip Ball 49/58
Pass Rush 100
Run Defense 90/100.


Poor strength and maybe acceleration held him in check in this version. The RT he faced was a rookie with nothing but athletic abilities. Low 20s for pass blocking shut the smaller speedy end down while playing head up most of the time.

In the run game the small player had two tackles and held his ground at times. Strength has to matter but it a small sample.

That lb playing end got a lot of sacks vs long passes. It would be great if Seth could use the data base to see the distribution of sacks there. But for long, medium and short passes. Let alone what position gets what when as it is more depending pass distance or play selection than actual talent. Talent is probably more reflective in the shorter and medium passes.

There was a 30 strength speed acceleration DE who got several sacks one game. He was 100 pass rush but it’s a bit wacky.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/12/2020 6:21 am
https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/440#81031

A possible screen pass attempt here