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[0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
9/21/2020 8:24 am
Spend the last couple of weeks fine tuning some variables in the engine to try to restore sacks. In unit testing I also noticed that rushing stats have been low compared to NFL averages, so I made some tweaks to that as well. What I expect to see with this version:

1) Sacks should be back and should arrive around the NFL norm of 7% with normal play calling.
2) Rushing stats should in general grow from a league average of around 3 yards per carry up to the NFL average of around 4 yards per carry.
3) Completion percentage in my massive testing should be around 60%. I changed the logic a little to try to reduce the number of longer pass plays getting dumped to the outlet too quickly, and also tried to reduce the decisions for a QB to throw into tight coverage. Once we restore the DB play that is shelved, I imagine this logic will need to be revisited, but right now I just want to get a stable 0.4.6 out without those DB coverage updates.
4) Interception percentage should be around 2.5%, also in line with NFL stats.
5) Yards per attempt is low and I'm struggling to figure out how to bring it up.

To seth's comments in the previous version thread, yes, I do run lots of automated testing to verify that the stats come out reasonable. Depending on the goals of the changes, though, some stats (like YPA) may not be resolving to a satisfactory value just because I am not able to really understand why from such a macro view. That's where your film study is so helpful. Further, the best laid plans never survive the first interaction with actual humans running the engine... the stats with my unit testing never line up with what happens with humans running the teams. That's why I'm relying on you guys - my 'boots on the ground' - to help identify on a micro level things that are not working.

Oh, one more comment about this update - please someone continue to try to get the punt block exploit to work. I want to make sure the increasing of sacks is not also going to reinstate that exploit.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Infinity on Trial
9/21/2020 8:34 am
!

Thank you. I look forward to testing this out.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
9/21/2020 1:38 pm
Sounds great,

one thing - no-one is against the Punt block, people just don't want to see multiple blocks in a game across several games in the same week. NFL average is approx. 1 per gameweek.

IF people are doing stupid things (playing non punter at punter or long snappers who have no proficiency in long snapping etc) then they deserve what they get.

It should be tough to do, but not impossible.


As an aside, late in last night's real life NFL game. Belicheck put everyone on the line of scrimmage to try and force a block or shanked kick. Dickson (SS Punter) got the ball off quick and low and boomed it 63 yards and inside the 20. Not suggesting this should be in MFN but it was interesting to watch. Great game by the way, well worth a watch.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
9/21/2020 2:54 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
Spend the last couple of weeks fine tuning some variables in the engine to try to restore sacks. In unit testing I also noticed that rushing stats have been low compared to NFL averages, so I made some tweaks to that as well. What I expect to see with this version:

1) Sacks should be back and should arrive around the NFL norm of 7% with normal play calling.
2) Rushing stats should in general grow from a league average of around 3 yards per carry up to the NFL average of around 4 yards per carry.
3) Completion percentage in my massive testing should be around 60%. I changed the logic a little to try to reduce the number of longer pass plays getting dumped to the outlet too quickly, and also tried to reduce the decisions for a QB to throw into tight coverage. Once we restore the DB play that is shelved, I imagine this logic will need to be revisited, but right now I just want to get a stable 0.4.6 out without those DB coverage updates.
4) Interception percentage should be around 2.5%, also in line with NFL stats.
5) Yards per attempt is low and I'm struggling to figure out how to bring it up.

To seth's comments in the previous version thread, yes, I do run lots of automated testing to verify that the stats come out reasonable. Depending on the goals of the changes, though, some stats (like YPA) may not be resolving to a satisfactory value just because I am not able to really understand why from such a macro view. That's where your film study is so helpful. Further, the best laid plans never survive the first interaction with actual humans running the engine... the stats with my unit testing never line up with what happens with humans running the teams. That's why I'm relying on you guys - my 'boots on the ground' - to help identify on a micro level things that are not working.

Oh, one more comment about this update - please someone continue to try to get the punt block exploit to work. I want to make sure the increasing of sacks is not also going to reinstate that exploit.


Is this update being applied for Victory as well? We are a couple of turnspins away from pre-season. IF we are, then I'll let everyone know the Punt block rule is rescinded for pre-season and could be re-installed for GW1 if it goes 'tits-up' and we get a whole slew of PB's

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
9/21/2020 3:52 pm
TheAdmiral wrote:
jdavidbakr wrote:
Spend the last couple of weeks fine tuning some variables in the engine to try to restore sacks. In unit testing I also noticed that rushing stats have been low compared to NFL averages, so I made some tweaks to that as well. What I expect to see with this version:

1) Sacks should be back and should arrive around the NFL norm of 7% with normal play calling.
2) Rushing stats should in general grow from a league average of around 3 yards per carry up to the NFL average of around 4 yards per carry.
3) Completion percentage in my massive testing should be around 60%. I changed the logic a little to try to reduce the number of longer pass plays getting dumped to the outlet too quickly, and also tried to reduce the decisions for a QB to throw into tight coverage. Once we restore the DB play that is shelved, I imagine this logic will need to be revisited, but right now I just want to get a stable 0.4.6 out without those DB coverage updates.
4) Interception percentage should be around 2.5%, also in line with NFL stats.
5) Yards per attempt is low and I'm struggling to figure out how to bring it up.

To seth's comments in the previous version thread, yes, I do run lots of automated testing to verify that the stats come out reasonable. Depending on the goals of the changes, though, some stats (like YPA) may not be resolving to a satisfactory value just because I am not able to really understand why from such a macro view. That's where your film study is so helpful. Further, the best laid plans never survive the first interaction with actual humans running the engine... the stats with my unit testing never line up with what happens with humans running the teams. That's why I'm relying on you guys - my 'boots on the ground' - to help identify on a micro level things that are not working.

Oh, one more comment about this update - please someone continue to try to get the punt block exploit to work. I want to make sure the increasing of sacks is not also going to reinstate that exploit.


Is this update being applied for Victory as well? We are a couple of turnspins away from pre-season. IF we are, then I'll let everyone know the Punt block rule is rescinded for pre-season and could be re-installed for GW1 if it goes 'tits-up' and we get a whole slew of PB's


Yes, they are using the beta engine and so will be getting all updates as they get deployed.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
9/25/2020 10:13 am
Pre-season gameweek 1

Some interesting plays from my teams games.

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56005

2-1-LIV 34 (14:16) 14-Kevin Keegan pass incomplete, intended for 33-Tom Fegan. Pressure by 76-Johnny James. PENALTY - Facemask (XXX 76-Johnny James)
Offensive Play: Strong I Big TE Drag
Defensive Play: Goal Line Attack #2

QB flushed out of pocket, good coverage downfield - not sure on the QB choice of pass, maybe should've just unloaded deep or continued the scramble. Throw choice may have been dictated by the penalty

-------------------------------------------------

Sack's are back

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56006

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56019

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56020

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56025

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56046

DL forces a pocket collapse, QB tries to evade

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56046

coverage sack

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56046

all out blitz gets the safety

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56064

Pressure from the edge

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56097

Goal to go, 3rd down. Waiting for the receiver to get free, QB moves through progression finds open receiver but runs out of time to make the throw

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56108

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56120

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56122

Not a sack, probably should've been. Did the pressure (QB hit) cause the drop/incompletion?

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56135

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56139

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56145

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56026

QB scrambles for first down shocker! - I'm hearing reports of this type of play in a few games, very nice (even though I was on the receiving end). Good push from the DL, good protection from the OL, good coverage downfield, QB tuck and run.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Throws over 20+ through the air (1 from 1)

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/319#56092

No timeouts called in the first half

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rushing seemed to be short yards or tackle for loss (TFL needs to be included in player stats) or a chunk play of 8-12 yards. Longest run was 13 yards.

For context these two teams were playoff teams in year one. The Fields (My team) are reigning Champions and use week one of pre-season to look at as many players as possible. We auto set Special Teams, whilst Tunguska put a lightning fast Safety in the front row on Punt returns and got nowhere near and I'm yet to hear of any Punt blocks (fingers crossed).


All in all, very impressed and early feedback from other games has been good.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
9/25/2020 4:30 pm
TheAdmiral wrote:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RJbzUKG7E_4E4lh4yThgEXsIdLPX0Guty3yhRJRVBco/edit?usp=sharing

QB play in week one of pre-season.

Note: no backups throwing 30 throws - 1 completions - 8 yards - 0 TD - 5 INT

63 QB's threw a ball in week one.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
9/25/2020 5:09 pm
Second sheet added for rushing, and a seperate look at QB runs.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
9/25/2020 6:25 pm
TheAdmiral wrote:
Second sheet added for rushing, and a seperate look at QB runs.


I think one reason they don’t run a lot is due to that 8 plus average per carry. It’s always been high. That 34 yarder was with an 80+ speed QB vs goaline. The MLB could not track him down. Really nobody is very aware of what the QBs is doing as he approaches the LOS .

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
9/25/2020 6:53 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
TheAdmiral wrote:
Second sheet added for rushing, and a seperate look at QB runs.


I think one reason they don’t run a lot is due to that 8 plus average per carry. It’s always been high. That 34 yarder was with an 80+ speed QB vs goaline. The MLB could not track him down. Really nobody is very aware of what the QBs is doing as he approaches the LOS .



If it's QB scrambling away from pressure it's fine. It mind send people off searching for Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Lamar Jackson, Cam Newton types. If there running into open field it's going to get big chunks and there is the risk/reward of being sacked. Potentially, there could be increased injury chance when he crosses the line of scrimmage and (technically) becomes a rusher rather than a QB.

The issue will be if and when designed QB runs are added in. as they are generally designed for short yardage and goal to go situations. Looking at the initial data, I'd be surprised if any QB gets 400+ yards rushing in the season.


On a sidenote, have end around, reverses, jet sweeps etc ever been used in the game. These too are plays with big risk/reward scenarios