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Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By setherick
10/27/2020 5:46 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
jdavidbakr wrote:
Here is an overview with the current beta engine data vs NFL stats

https://public.tableau.com/profile/jon.baker#!/vizhome/MFNAnalysis/PassingData

Each dot is an individual QB, and this is looking at the current season.

Initial observations seem to concur sacks are too high. Completion percentage has too many low outliers, interception percentage too many high outliers. The rushing data tab shows the range is a bit too wide.


This is helpful, and affirms what we've observed: Yards per attempt are too low, and sacks are way too high.

I suspect the completion percentage is on target because QBs are lasered in on the short routes.

EDIT: Removing question about where the data is from. I see the headers now.


Also YPA is WAY too low still. I suspect that's because QBs are not getting the time to hit the deeper routes.
Last edited at 10/27/2020 5:46 pm

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By setherick
10/29/2020 6:26 am
OL Blocking assignments are still broken.

On this play, the RT should take the LDE. Instead the RT goes inside. The FB comes up to take the LDE, and then also goes inside: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/12117#2258340

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/29/2020 7:33 am
setherick wrote:
OL Blocking assignments are still broken.

On this play, the RT should take the LDE. Instead the RT goes inside. The FB comes up to take the LDE, and then also goes inside: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/12117#2258340


That one does not seem that bad cause a faster blocker could have worked . Why not it be the RT tried to engage but he couldn’t get there so he turned in. The RB picked up the blitzer and maybe the RT did too after the wiff.( they just stand there after being beat) but The RB should have helped out there.

You can line blitzers up in the 7,8,9 technique and the G comes over to help. That’s one is worse and All the backs do not help out if the oline gets beat on blitzes. Mobility is key here and your RT was probably too slow. The high acceleration is more apparent now. But it could have been a the pass blocking matchup roll here.(100vs100 would dictate a highlighting of play overuse deciding the outcome )

Sacks this way is rampant though. My bigger issue with is the long pass call as the problem and the back no going out for his route when he would be open.

The DBs were fast but the wrs made is only a few yards downfield by the time the pressure was there. This needs to be loosened up to get those long passes going again. pass plays have almost ever man coverage assignment being too strong. Defensively while in man guys are slowing routes too much. It messing the timing too much. How could the qb get through his reads if guys never get a chance to finish their routes?

And off ball defenders react too quickly. Even while always in trail technique they peel off in a split second and make plays. That’s should be lowered a bit too.

I am not saying I pass blocking is perfect but other areas have to help reads and ypa. We threw 2 picks when pressure was in our face. The right QB should be making plays while under pressure too. Lowering how much it effects the qb throws should up stats as well.

Cause right now any qb on long passes is a sitting duck just waiting to get sacked. It doesn’t seem right unless your ok with only a few long passes a game.
Last edited at 10/29/2020 7:37 am

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/29/2020 10:00 am
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/12122#2259075

Play: Slot Crosses
Formation: Singleback Empty 4
Type: Medium Pass
In Playbook: Yes
Off Familiarity: 20%
Def Familiarity: 48%
Times Used/Avg: 5/-5.7
2nd Down/Avg: 4/-6.6
3rd Down/Avg: 1/-2.1


Like this play medium pass with no TE pattern and back. So no dump off essentially. They run a zone which has plenty of holes to get beat but the lesser DE get the sack. without those quick reads the play stinks as the average say. Blame familiarity but missing that read to the ride side slot just makes no sense.
Last edited at 10/29/2020 10:02 am

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/30/2020 4:13 am
I think I've spotted something that is driving sacks up and completions/yards per attempt down.

On Play action plays and/or plays where the QB is flushed out of the pocket he (QB) does not go wide enough and/or deep enough to give himself space to set his feet and throw. He will tuck in behind the Tackle thus immediately blocking out half the field, he then gets stuck and if he doesn't take off and scamper, he gets sacked.

By going wider and/or deeper he will give the play extra time to develop - which should lead to increased output on mid and long passes.

I've been looking at this as coverage sacks to this point, which they are (to a point) as the OL is doing it's job and the QB runs out of time. Here's some examples from my game in Victory today.

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/558#101245

This is a Singleback Normal Quick Slant play against a Nickel Normal Double WR3, he's flushed out but needs to be 2 yards deeper. However, rather than stepping back (and further across) he turns in towards the rusher. If he goes deeper and/or wider the play is extended and he can see more of the field.

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/558#101280

On this play, I formation Normal SE Post against 4-3 Under Double Safety Blitz. He feels the pressure moves out and immediately scampers for 10 yards but he was fortunate to avoid being sacked because again he stays too narrow. This time the blockers are able to do their job and he escapes. By going wider and/or deeper he gives himself time to survey his options before taking off, forcing the secondary to track receivers deep and giving him space to run into if no-one is open and he scrambles - it may ultimately lead to less yards on the scramble than he achieves here but it may also open up the deep ball throw.

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/558#101265

On this play, Split Backs 3 Wide Slot Post against Nickel 335 Cover 2 Man Under. This time it's just a 3 man rush, the OL are handling it but being forced back. Instead of stepping back and/or sideways he steps forward killing his time forcing him to throw the ball away, with the extra time from taking a step or two back the receiver he throws towards should be in a position where he's ready to receive the pass.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/30/2020 4:42 am
https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/546#99145

Weak I Normal WR Corner TE middle
Nickel Normal Double WR2

On this play from a couple of weeks back, the RT is beaten but the Guard or Center picks up the Rusher. The QB steps forward, blocking his vision and the Rusher breaks free for the sack. By stepping backwards he buys time for the RB dumpoff or he can throw to either WR1 or WR2 or as the LB's start in pursuit he could throw to the TE (the LB's may stay in pass protection if the QB steps back) even so he has a WR in single coverage (unobstructed) and an RB (cross field) who should outrun the LB and run in for the TD at the corner with the WR blocking the CB.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/30/2020 7:10 am
Versions ago the QBs would drop back and do a swooping rollout. A foot race ensued and we dealt with a thing called the sideline sack. This tight rollout we have now is probably a result of those plays being culled. Faster was always the better result for either side. Keeping a balance of the slow and fast would be key here.

You can count on a qb to run it, throw it away, or try a cross field throw right now. As long as those were in balance it would be nice to see the more mobile guys use that whole area to make plays. This part of the game has been stiff throughout the past versions and could use some tweaks. But right now I am not really liking slower QBs any how

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
10/30/2020 9:15 am
TheAdmiral wrote:
I think I've spotted something that is driving sacks up and completions/yards per attempt down.

On Play action plays and/or plays where the QB is flushed out of the pocket he (QB) does not go wide enough and/or deep enough to give himself space to set his feet and throw. He will tuck in behind the Tackle thus immediately blocking out half the field, he then gets stuck and if he doesn't take off and scamper, he gets sacked.

By going wider and/or deeper he will give the play extra time to develop - which should lead to increased output on mid and long passes.

I've been looking at this as coverage sacks to this point, which they are (to a point) as the OL is doing it's job and the QB runs out of time. Here's some examples from my game in Victory today.

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/558#101245

This is a Singleback Normal Quick Slant play against a Nickel Normal Double WR3, he's flushed out but needs to be 2 yards deeper. However, rather than stepping back (and further across) he turns in towards the rusher. If he goes deeper and/or wider the play is extended and he can see more of the field.

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/558#101280

On this play, I formation Normal SE Post against 4-3 Under Double Safety Blitz. He feels the pressure moves out and immediately scampers for 10 yards but he was fortunate to avoid being sacked because again he stays too narrow. This time the blockers are able to do their job and he escapes. By going wider and/or deeper he gives himself time to survey his options before taking off, forcing the secondary to track receivers deep and giving him space to run into if no-one is open and he scrambles - it may ultimately lead to less yards on the scramble than he achieves here but it may also open up the deep ball throw.

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/558#101265

On this play, Split Backs 3 Wide Slot Post against Nickel 335 Cover 2 Man Under. This time it's just a 3 man rush, the OL are handling it but being forced back. Instead of stepping back and/or sideways he steps forward killing his time forcing him to throw the ball away, with the extra time from taking a step or two back the receiver he throws towards should be in a position where he's ready to receive the pass.


Right now the QB's scramble skill is determining how far away from the pocket he is going to be willing to go. Keegan has a scramble skill of 37 (this skill is calculated linearly, not exponentially) which is pretty low. What are you thoughts on that driver?

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/30/2020 9:44 am
I agree Keegan is a shocking QB for scrambling so maybe not the best for this comparison. However I would suggest that a QB with poor scrambling would be more likely to go backwards to try and give himself an extra second, a QB with good scrambling would be able to spin away from the initial rusher move laterally and look to either throw down the sideline, throw away, tuck and run (sideline or slide to finish).

The bad scrambler would be less likely to avoid the first rusher and would be more inclined to look for a dumpoff pass behind the line of scrimmage or short yardage gain, less likely to tuck'n'run and more likely to throw the ball away either sideline or throw a Hail Mary (game time dependant).

I watch plenty of Russell Wilson and he will dodge Rushers by rolling out, spinning away, ducking under, back peddling or if the OL can make a hole and the LBs are deep enough run up the middle. Sometimes doing multiple of the above on a single play - he would be a 95+ scrambling. A poor scrambler, say a Roethlisberger type would only scramble if he had to and would have maybe one or two of the above moves.

Also to stop the Rusher the QB will pump fake, if the rusher bites he tends to stop momentarily and jump to try and knock down/bat the ball if it is thrown. This is another way to buy time

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/30/2020 9:54 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiV2L_ilK-c

Watch how deep Wilson goes on most of these plays and then all the different moves he makes.