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Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Smirt211
10/07/2020 12:10 pm
No, no no.

I'm saying that the intent was for the Man OLB Flat Zone to never be used 35x a game or at an absurd level. It's meant to be used regular as in a normal rotation.

Instead, you see some people get 'power drunk' and want to short curt to and getting rewarded with 19-0, 14-2, 15-1 type success by using it as 1 of their main 2 defensive plays.

That should not be. Instead of negative familiarity escalating to -75% with each usage, it should hit a plateau where the sim engine says 'ok, you joker. Now you get zapped.'

BANG - 80 yard FL Hitch
BANG - 75 Yard PA Fullback Flat

Not endless failed events on plays vs. it.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Infinity on Trial
10/07/2020 2:59 pm
I still wonder if negative PK is just a display bug.

I feel like there are two big reasons why the OLB Flat Zone is so effective, and it has nothing to do with particular plays being amped or nerfed, if such a thing ever happened.

1) QBs are limited by problems with pressure clocks and receiver progression, which makes this the perfect play call: QBs are going to get rid of the ball quickly without ever looking downfield, and the defense is flooding the likely throwing lanes with extra players.

2) QBs are not accurate, and player speed is dysfunctional, so the floating OLBs can practically knock down or intercept anything between the sideline and hash marks inside of 10 yards.

If QBs could and would throw a 10-15 yard in/out/fly route with one-on-one coverage downfield and no safety help, you would see teams rapidly dial back the use of OLB Flat Zone.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Smirt211
10/07/2020 3:11 pm
I can't speak right now because I play him. We'll see what happens and then I can react.

I get what you're saying, though. One could spotlight a couple of plays which can expose that defensive play but they're infrequent.

1) TE Flag, however, that'll come up over and over and not give you something and then produce a major gainer. 1 fly route and a TE whom posts far away from the LBs. (going off memory)

2) 2-1-2 PA Fullback Flat, every once in awhile it'll hit over the top on a fly route.

Problem is the OLB Flat Zone is far more apt to dominate you than for you to win over with those offensive plays. Is TE Flag even available in every coaching style? I don't think it is.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By hollyhh2000
10/07/2020 3:33 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:


If QBs could and would throw a 10-15 yard in/out/fly route with one-on-one coverage downfield and no safety help, you would see teams rapidly dial back the use of OLB Flat Zone.


I think, the decision to which receiver to throw could really use some upgrade.
Too often, the QB will throw into tripple coverage instead of trying the 1 vs 1 matchup despite not being pressured.

Yards to 1st down apparently has limited influence in his decision on third down.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/07/2020 3:33 pm
Smirt211 wrote:
I can't speak right now because I play him. We'll see what happens and then I can react.

I get what you're saying, though. One could spotlight a couple of plays which can expose that defensive play but they're infrequent.

1) TE Flag, however, that'll come up over and over and not give you something and then produce a major gainer. 1 fly route and a TE whom posts far away from the LBs. (going off memory)

2) 2-1-2 PA Fullback Flat, every once in awhile it'll hit over the top on a fly route.

Problem is the OLB Flat Zone is far more apt to dominate you than for you to win over with those offensive plays. Is TE Flag even available in every coaching style? I don't think it is.


Theoretically, every play with a fly route should have the potential to beat up the - the debate is how often 1%, 10%, 20%, more? Then smart coaches and QB's would select plays with fly routes to force the opponent out of that one play.

A WR has a finite number of routes that he can run: out, curls, hooks, drags, slants, crossing, post and corner and generally three set distances short, mid, deep. If you load up on deep, mid and short post routes theoretically you should hit the home run at some point?

Edit: whoever invented autocorrect should stand trial for murdering the English Language
Last edited at 10/07/2020 3:45 pm

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/07/2020 3:41 pm
hollyhh2000 wrote:
Infinity on Trial wrote:


If QBs could and would throw a 10-15 yard in/out/fly route with one-on-one coverage downfield and no safety help, you would see teams rapidly dial back the use of OLB Flat Zone.


I think, the decision to which receiver to throw could really use some upgrade.
Too often, the QB will throw into tripple coverage instead of trying the 1 vs 1 matchup despite not being pressured.

Yards to 1st down apparently has limited influence in his decision on third down.


And often he'll ignore a guy that is wide open completely. He should also realise that if a player is double or triple covered that someone else must be open.

On the second point, I sometimes wonder whether this is just poor gameplanning on our part. For example it's 3rd and 7 and we're putting in plays that are designed to get 3 or 4 yards?

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Smirt211
10/07/2020 3:46 pm
Right, theoretically...

I'd pull up the MAN OLB Flat Zone and align all the proper plays to put an end to it. Unfortunately, we're playing the game as we've learned it and what's viable.

Therefore, you place the plays you possess in front of you and decide how to attack it. We're playing in a world where the majority of passes go to the underneath route or the hope for the swooping FL Hitch strike and then you learn some other effective pass routes and you go with those.

The problem is, as currently constituted, you can't rely on the sim engine to fling it to the over the top fly route or give you what you want. Dropped passes, interceptions, holding penalty calls.

I do see the one a lot on the over the top fly route ....the pass will sputter short and not reach the destination. But, yes, in theory you'd open the play book up more and have more available plays to just drill the individual with routes that shatter the defensive play.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Infinity on Trial
10/07/2020 8:10 pm
Here's some recent data on how offensive plays perform against the OLB Flat Zone, in case it helps



Edit, to add these notes:

Sorted by ANY/A, which is a kind of QB rating.

The medium is not the average.

STD is the "standard deviation" from the medium.
Last edited at 10/07/2020 8:15 pm

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Smirt211
10/07/2020 8:24 pm
Thank you. :)

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/08/2020 7:31 am
Problems:

possible fixes

1.Coverage is tight.

no abuse penalties for offensive plays facing non blitz plays.


2.Pressures are low but sacks are high. Especially on long passes.

lower what slows receivers down during thier routes. The hand fighting or if man/ route does it too.

Have QBs scramble a bit more.

Make the pass blocking rating matter a little more than just athletic abilities.


3.Too many drops and knockdowns on passes that travel further in the air.

lower the calculation of longer pass to make defenses have to play a deep defense to stop it.



4.Touching on reads i see my low FOV QB forcing passes. My wr1 has a lot of targets which is good but is low FOV is what’s causing it. Cb1s that I have faced had great games no matter the skill. One was a C grade and the other an A grade. Something will make that accuracy value drop but I have yet to see it in this code.

lower how man defenders react off the ball will make reads look better. Same as giving zone more appropriate spacing, but all the prior suggestions should change things a bit and help.

Letting qbs throw in the face of pressure a bit more should help the accuracy thing and maybe drops knockdowns and ints. I see QBs stand strong sometimes but more would be ok. Less sacks and more pressures is key