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Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/06/2020 8:08 am
TheAdmiral wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
TheAdmiral wrote:
Shall we dance...

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/382#67246



Makes you wonder what the qb was doing here. Looking at the receivers you get a good feel for all their route scenarios. The drag took it at 1 second following the snap in his normal fashion turning that pattern in to a zig zag.

The next guy to end his route was the TE ....3 seconds later he turns his pattern in to a deep out at 15 yards flooding the right side of the field with the wr1 and the rb turning his route from a flat to a wheel.

A second later the wr2 who get the deepest down the field turns completely around a bolts back to the line of scrimmage. He was the only one open after the QBs missed the drag/quick zag early in the play. But the wr2 actually ended his route and was the only way he to run to open field.

The wr3 running deep post ended his route a second later in the muddled right side with every one else besides the wr2 probably why the wr2 was open. Why the qb did not throw it or move or get tackled is a different story but it was great to see the end route scenarios.

I don’t know what dictates them as to when or why they do what they do but after 6 seconds that all ended there routes sometime in that time frame.

Really like the old zone defense where they used the position of the other zone defenders to find a better position (zone) to cover to keep some balanced spacing between them. That concept should be used for the receivers at the end route scenarios.

Don’t get muddled up vs cover 1 just run to the open space. I wonder if the qb would have made a throw if someone was open? It was like the drag and hb swing were dump and offs and were ignored and the DBs had lock down coverage in man for the entire 6 seconds. Truly showing how overpowered man bump is . And how easily QBs could just take off and run for first downs if they were allowed.



Reading between the lines,

Had his OL pushed back into him from an inside rush
At the same time, couldn't go backwards as the outside rush was looking for the strip sack
Likely he ducked under the next attempt from the opposite side (no way of knowing) or the OL bumped the DL off line
4th attempt to sack sees him try to scramble to his right
5th attempt finally gets him.

My guess is he never had an open lane as he was getting rushed from all sides - no line of sight for a throw, no room to go forwards, backwards, left or right - just a question if something would open up before they got him.

It was like watching Russell Wilson evade pressure after his pocket collapses in on him and he has nowhere to run too.

There's a couple more plays from the game that I'll put up for you later (time permitting)


31 scrambling probably stuck him in the pocket. And I am not saying it can happen but russel Wilson would have initially rolled to the left or threw to the primary the wr1 on the drag. Even at the 10:34-35 mark there was a clear lane up the middle ... maybe he was falling at that point.

Limited QBs running va. 3 man rush combined with coverage being to strong enough on non penalized plays makes for a tough code to accept . Yes there are good things but so much is wrong with this code. Run it vs a blitz or make it a similar shorter pass and the result is drastically different.....or sensitive to outside factors.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/06/2020 10:15 am
Musical Statues?....

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/382#67141

Next one, I see quite a lot across several leagues and formats. Is it play design or just a badly executed play?

In this instance it was the
Offensive Play: Strong I Big HB Toss Weak

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/382#67159

Next up, good decision making from my QB to scramble on 2nd and short with all passing options covered. He is about as mobile as I am (speed 10), so seeing him get a first down shows there's hope for us all.

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/382#67251

Keystone Cops - penalty, double fumble, first down madness - these plays are great fun/incredibly frustrating depending on the result. Question is, the penalty flag goes down early, prior to the first fumble, but the play description seems to give the penalty for a facemask violation at the end of the play?

Is it just me reading too much into this?

1-10-LIV 47 (7:50) 85-Sami Hyppia ran to LIV 47 for a short gain. 85-Sami Hyppia FUMBLES (62-Todd Johnson) 85-Sami Hyppia FUMBLES (48-Thomas Akers) recovered by UND-47-Tristan Da Cunha to UND 45 for 5 yards. 47-Tristan Da Cunha FUMBLES (87-Ian St John) recovered by LIV-12-William Martinez to UND 35 for 11 yards. Pushed out of bounds by 39-Eric Weiss. PENALTY - Facemask (UND 39-Eric Weiss)


------------------------------------------------

Going back to the stats. Last season (first year of League) most sacks for the season was 9 (admittedly, ridiculously low). Week one season two, league leader for sacks has 7 already!

The QB who was sacked the most was downed 34 times for 345 yards. One week into the new season, we have two QB's sacked 10 times (including the League Champion) and one with figures of 12/73!

My Victory Bowl winning QB has no mbility, pointed out earlier but has a good OL in front of him. Good, but not great - they're struggling against strength.

Meanwhile my opponents OL, who had vastly superior strength to my OL gave up 6 sacks - primarily down too coverage.

I know from snippets in the forum on Victory that there are teams getting sacks with pure speed, bull rush.

I think it's great that there are now a variety of ways to skin this particular cat, but, but, but it needs to be toned down slightly or we could have teams with 120+ sacks for the season and 40+ possibly 50+ for the Individual sack leader.

It's close to being very, very good but it needs to be toned down slightly or the OL blocking needs to be better.

------------------------------------------------

Finally, the lesser spotted LEGAL Punt Block in the Roster Only Franchise Football League, in a game involving two teams who won their divisions.

https://ff.myfootballnow.com/watch/931#153956

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Smirt211
10/06/2020 10:18 am
In this instance it was the
Offensive Play: Strong I Big HB Toss Weak

- Route running and avoidance; definitely the former. For arcing runs you need good route running. Seth put me onto it and I've kept a keen eye on it since. Example, certain runs QBs and CBs will fail mode on.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/06/2020 2:18 pm
1-10-LIV 47 (7:50) 85-Sami Hyppia ran to LIV 47 for a short gain. 85-Sami Hyppia FUMBLES (62-Todd Johnson) 85-Sami Hyppia FUMBLES (48-Thomas Akers) recovered by UND-47-Tristan Da Cunha to UND 45 for 5 yards. 47-Tristan Da Cunha FUMBLES (87-Ian St John) recovered by LIV-12-William Martinez to UND 35 for 11 yards. Pushed out of bounds by 39-Eric Weiss. PENALTY - Facemask (UND 39-Eric Weiss

it hard to tell when the flag is thrown unless your watching the game viewer. This face mask happened right before the strip and should have negated the FF. Dead ball 5 or 15 yard penalty at the spot of the foul depending if it were a blatant facemask or not


Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/06/2020 2:52 pm
My Victory Bowl winning QB has no mbility, pointed out earlier but has a good OL in front of him. Good, but not great - they're struggling against strength.

Meanwhile my opponents OL, who had vastly superior strength to my OL gave up 6 sacks - primarily down too coverage.

I know from snippets in the forum on Victory that there are teams getting sacks with pure speed, bull rush.


10 speed 69 acceleration and 84 carry at 220 pounds. It’s slow but not the slowest...... vs these 3 man rushes it doesn’t seem to matter. This play looked pretty good.... the lack of anyone tracking the qb is why they get the yards they do.

If QBs took off like they should we would need better response by the defense. So I am greatfull to at least see them running. It’s a counter to these base defenses but how does Keegan fare against heavy blitzes throw his way? . He’s smart and has some FOV ....

As for your line they let up a lot of sacks vs long passes. And a 77 speed RT is still slower than a 77!speed DE. The strength part is up for debate. I considered that the bull rush so making guys better blockers will change something but I would look at coverage first. See if on those long passes QBs can get those reads/throws off in time.

I think jdb has a time to pass stat at his disposal so we can check time to throw. And I agree A small tweak could open things up.

The abuse penalties should be taken out for a game or two. We probably still need them cause you should get more tired playing man and blitzing all day.

Or lower the likelihood the far passes not getting thrown let alone being dropped. there still is not enough air yards either .

My oline stinks but they did good due to why and when my qb decided to make a throw. This code can not be that stiff . 10 sacks with 30 % long passes and 2 sacks with zero % long passes. With out blitzes I don’t think we complete many passes for big yards but we actually threw for more yards per attempt throwing more short passes . .

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/06/2020 3:48 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
1-10-LIV 47 (7:50) 85-Sami Hyppia ran to LIV 47 for a short gain. 85-Sami Hyppia FUMBLES (62-Todd Johnson) 85-Sami Hyppia FUMBLES (48-Thomas Akers) recovered by UND-47-Tristan Da Cunha to UND 45 for 5 yards. 47-Tristan Da Cunha FUMBLES (87-Ian St John) recovered by LIV-12-William Martinez to UND 35 for 11 yards. Pushed out of bounds by 39-Eric Weiss. PENALTY - Facemask (UND 39-Eric Weiss

it hard to tell when the flag is thrown unless your watching the game viewer. This face mask happened right before the strip and should have negated the FF. Dead ball 5 or 15 yard penalty at the spot of the foul depending if it were a blatant facemask or not




My bad, thought I'd included the link

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/382#67252

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/07/2020 9:00 am
What about not penalizing offensive plays that face non blitzing plays?

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/07/2020 9:45 am
How about the after a set amount of times a play is used (can be different for each play) the effectiveness of that play gradually reduces. Think of it as play 'over-familiarity' or half-time adjustments - eg team A runs the double WR1 play half a dozen times in the first half (approx. 20% of the teams defensive calls). Head Coach of team B starts using WR1 as a decoy and throws to the opposite side of the field.

After all, if for example team A runs to the outside on 1st and 10, 70% of the time in the first half. You would expect a defense to adjust to that by playing more run D on 1st and 10 to try to force more 2nd and 3rd and long scenarios. It may be that the Offense is trying to sucker the D into loading the box so that they can then hit the D with a sucker punch off play action or run/pass option routes (not surethat we have a genuine run/pass option play in MFN as QB's haven't really been running the ball at all)

Basically, I would expect a team to find the plays to beat the plays if they keep seeing the same plays. Whether that's on Offense or Defense.


Can someone also explain the logic of negative values against plays that you train on all week (the 10 plays you 'key' on). Surely if I'm training on beating a set defense (Man OLB Flat Zone for example) my coach will know which of his 40 options gives him the best chance of beating that play.

Play familiarity definitely needs looking at. Only plays that don't feature in a Coaches personalized playbook should be able to have a negative reading. Because the team never sees or trains for or against that play.

If there are plays in a coaches gameplan that are not selected for use on either side of the ball the familiarity for that play should drop to zero and if it remains at zero for a full season, the play should be removed from the Coaches playbook.

If a Coach repeatedly sees and keys on plays that aren't in his playbook as the familiarity grows beyond a certain level, the coach will 'acquire' that play. Think of it as learning the play by having to practice against it every week.

Young coaches should have very, very basic playbooks and learn plays based on the positions they hold over time. Therefore a Coach who has spent time coaching DLine, Receivers, Secondary and Linebackers would have a playbook with more defensive options and would be a prime candidate for a Defensive Co-ordinators position.

Whereas right now you can pick up a still wet behind the ears coach with no experience and give him the Head Coach role and he could have exactly the same playbook as a multiple Superbowl winning Head Coach.

IF that happened in real life where a coach had a limited playbook he would quickly be found wanting. At the moment, a limited playbook (with the right plays) can see a team dominate a league in MFN and that doesn't feel right.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Smirt211
10/07/2020 9:54 am
Not sure if I explained it in front of your eyes but I went into it....somewhere.

I'll go super quick version: after v4.2 TPTB needed to make zone defenses viable. In order to do that I believe certain plays got over-powered. It has been said to be a display issue but that's inaccurate. I believe we're seeing the result of a necessary action to make zone defense viable.

Now, it was never meant to play out this way with someone running it 35x in a game. (Man OLB Flat Zone) It's meant to be used regularly.

I've come out of games -75% when someone mashed me on it.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/07/2020 11:49 am
I get that some plays are supposed to be used a lot, hence stating there should be different thresholds for each play.

But if you see a play all day, every game it makes no sense to believe you'll get worse at recognising it and beating it.

Or am I missing some logic.

I can't make any comment on 0.4.2 as I never played it or anything other than 0.4.5 and BETA. The point I was making wasn't about specific plays or schemes just the game in general.