Rivals has been suggested as a second beta (a less mature league so we can see the differences with lower overall player talent), but nobody has made it official. That's why I picked up a team there, not because I needed another project.

I do follow beta. Openings don't happen all the time, and when they do they fill quickly with guys who don't post much. If there is another opening soon, I'm willing to jump in . . . and make a nuisance of myself with my own personal opinions and agenda.

This thread keeps running because all the owners who aren't in beta aren't going to post in the beta forum. We don't have the background of the beta owners, or all the information that is available to them, so our observations will be just as contentious with less accuracy. We NOTICED the problems with 4.5. We were surprised that it was released with so many problems. We NOTICED that more people left than with previous releases. This is our public forum, where we post the things we notice.

Yes, everyone here has there own personal opinion what should be the highest priority fix. Everyone has their own experiences that they bring to the table. Ignore the negativity and value that.

If rivals is a test league then any allocation is? Idk, but mfn1 has the beta forums. It is different to me.

In beta Everyone is on the same playing field, and all opinions are welcome . All beta testers started the same way, but maybe setherick had information gained via pm from Jdb and they colaborated perhaps . Idk, I feel like I am not in the loop either, unless I put me self there ? Everything else is in the beta forum some where . That's where I got it. I have never pm ed him, so I don't know what information you might be talking about.

Changes happen through out the season and we post opinions/ suggestions . That's it. Most times it doesn't take more than one play to see some differences . Let alone a game or a season , Rare ones take a general release to see. It's 100× more games /possibilities.

For me it is not about longevity there. It's about breaking down film just like real football . Thsts why seth or infinity can pop in and out. You only need eyes and experience breaking down film. Beta is where the effective communication happens in real time. For more effective tweaks. Look dumb and post there. I will not judge that? Nobody does its a great environment that lacks diversity in posts but thats cause less than 30 guys do it regularly and a handful actually break down film. Most top users ones that break the code don't play in beta. They complain , but are not represented. How could they be with there silence and absence?

The relationship between making effective changes in needs work . Looking at that relationship here a lot of typing was used to say " let thing sit in beta longer ". We knew that in beta too, but why have this huge thread to figure out what's been hashed out all already .

Like I said the problem lies in the support from jbd listening to the few or gaining users opinions (posts) so we can effectively communicate what we think is wrong from a wider perspective. Still, We said all the general release complaints but it was released any way. I tried to represent the masses by saying people are not going to like not being able to throw to the outside receiversout of spread sets. It did not matter....There wasn't enough verbal support at that time.

These general forum posts just back up the complaints in beta. A general release of 4.4 and 4.5 was only way to go for him to see how bad it was. There no devaluing of opinions any where but focus them in beta and you'll see quicker results that would possibly prevent this yet keep us on a competitive pace with other simialr games. Not that that matters cause this is a hobby.

We're on 4.5 for another two seasons at least now cause of it. We would have been on 4.4 for 5 or more seasons and or 4.3 for 10+. If nothing was pushed. Heck I liked some version between 4.2 and 4.3 that never got pushed. Really, I get shot down /ignored 99% of the time with suggestions /complaints and my moral is still high. Those same suggestions are repeated by newbs time and time again til he finally changes something . It's a slow process to say the least . ..imo. But I am not a computer guy or Jdb and I respect and support any decisions he makes, ....but I love numbers and football and this game even more to silently walk away forever cause a recent change .

Imo all of that is way too long to play any of those codes. If we got stuck on one for a while I am happiest to be where we are. Despite anything in this thread.

Are you not riding me for the fact that I believe that. My opinion . This thread is beat. All here say. Give me something with numbers i can break down already so these ignored opinions can come to fruition

Once again this is my opinion . ..hate it or not, but having my version of truth paints a better light on the future of the game. I know this thread was done in good intentions , but personal feelings are highlighted and any more un truths or hear say only is warping things into something ill founded.

We're in agreement here.

The DB Bump and Run Safeguards with hand checking and devised sim rolls to make it a little harder to hit PA Streaks consistently and the other big chunk plays from the v4.2 days. Same v4.2 infrastructure with sim roll impediments to block a degree of the happy ending results. (80 yard lightning strike touchdowns from being a consistent regularity)

Bad DBs would still get burned.

Bad Defensive Plays would still get burned. (Exploitable Blitzes on a Run Key per se nailed with a WR Streak)

Things of that nature.

This thread isnt pointless, its a general discussion among concerned owners about the direction of the game.

Im not in the beta league, have no interest or time to be in the beta league and have NEVER read the beta forums. Why? Im too busy being league admin in 3 full leagues and running my 15 teams.

The moment 4.4 was released EVERY league became a beta league because a broken version was released for some reason. I have no idea why something so broken was released before being play tested in beta first but it was. If it was tested in beta first and still released then the Beta league concept is broken.

With all that being said, everyone has a right to post in the forums and if you think JDB doesnt read this, you are greatly mistaken. The fact that future releases will be slowed down to test them in beta for at least a full season has been publicly stated by JDB directly because of post like this.

This post was started in March and is still going, that in and of itself proves that the issue has resonated with owners and they wish to express views on the matter. This includes 2 seperate post by JDB himself.

I dont understand why people think a post like this is negative, pointless or people just griping about the game. Its obviously we all are passionate about this game and all want it to succeed. This is JDB's baby and I like to think that he reads these post and actually enjoys the feedback from owners that are passionate about the game, its direction and concerned over the lose of owners.

You say these messages should be in the Beta forums where they belong but its being read by those that matter. You said yourself that concerns in beta where heard on deaf ears so maybe a new avenue needed to be created outside of that to knock the message home.

Sometimes the best way to see things clearly is from the outside.

Ray, I read you saying there is a problem in communication, that's why beta exists, any constructive criticism happens there, so anything here is repetitive drama.

Cjfred, I read you saying there is a problem in communication, that's why this thread exists.

I say any "un truths" posted here actually got responded to with factual information presented to the general community. Hooray! ;)

I also say, we can't bring everyone posting here into beta. There isn't room, and not all are willing. So here's a link to the beta forum, in case anyone reading here didn't already know where to find the good stuff (and wants to read it).

PROCEED FURTHER AT YOUR OWN RISK . . .
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/forums/6

The direction of the game is the opinion , but why if offense down. Is it the code or the user? This thread blames the code the testers the game maker. Not the user . That makes it an opinion

. My offenses and defenses are better and more alignmened with the actual ratings. Why is that a bad direction? One just might have to let go of a personal perspective (agenda) and play the code.

Some users are worse some are better. Are the better ones gonna post here or in beta. No. The ones I am recruiting are any, but specifically he ones who break down film and relate to nfl responsibilities within assignments. Seth was great at that as well as suggestions to fix it within the scope the game has to offer . Others like ares had amazing suggestions but rarely posted in beta. Still, he invested his time and effort in to plans and game for analysis . Good or bad this thread is boring cause the inaccurate parts. They are repeated and inaccurate . That's not good for the future . Worse than this code by far.

Me pushing a general release for 4.4 and 4.5 was the new avenue . Cause it was so bad. Both ares and seth are gone. I feel alone in mfn 1 and need help. You can question my recruitment methods but using such a large venue is within the rules of the game is ingenious . The worst that could happen is this thread get locked up...lock it up.imo

I was hoping you come up with a break down of who's actually left and came and how that's related to past code releases . I see little difference here....except its a defensive minded code. But thats only cause of the complexity / sensitivity and time and effort it take to align to make every one happy .

Look at the difference it has made by investing all my time and effort in beta. It took two real years but I don't actually feel like quitting because of the code anymore . I believe he will listen and make necessary changes now. In the past I believed he was too easily influenced by threads like this. Not that the masses are wrong. But you have to believe at this stage.

But when you build a real venture from scratch you devise a plan , put the pieces together, and execute no matter the feedback . I honestly think you missing the big picture here. The root foundation for man coverage was laid down. It time to finish it. Not change directions. Just execute. Or were in agreement here. Idk?

Are you in or out...cause this is falling on deaf ears. I want you, but posts like this put you in realm of users that I can divulge info from by watching your games. But I need guys who are willing to give it up and often . Isolate things ...not necessarily try to win at all costs.

Without it the progress of this game will move at a snails pace like the past. And if you think someone might not pass us up is rude to the potential of the game and other coders. I came from another game that went under. The admin was horrid. The boards were worse. I don't want that here, and that's what this thread feels like to me. Constructive or not humans are not Machines and a lot of parts of this thread just don't feel right .

I am just putting my truth out there like the others . Only Jdb knows the truth and I believe him. He's not touched this thread has he? I haven't followed the beginning very much? The false statements is what stuck out to me. I guess it's perception . Maybe mines negative , but I bet on myself all time and believe there no wrong moves.

The brightest part is possible mfn1 recruitment ...change is good and is a universal energy . Little point to fight it. Gentle communication gets effective results . I am working on that here.

"The direction of the game is the opinion?"

This is the general forum. Forum as defined by the Merrium-Webster dictionary is:

an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.

"My offenses and defenses are better and more aligned with the actual ratings"

I see no facts to support this so that is your opinion.

"Why is that a bad direction?"

See title of thread, also see numerous league threads and league chats about the direction this game has taken.

"One just might have to let go of a personal perspective (agenda) and play the code"

First, Im here to play a football sim using my knowledge of football in an attempt to approximate an actual football owner, general manager and head coach. Im not here to figure out, write or troubleshoot code, I have ZERO knowledge of such things but I do know how to manage a roster and call plays. My agenda is to escape the real world for a few moments everyday and have some fun.

"Some users are worse some are better"

Captain obvious

"Are the better ones gonna post here or in beta. No."

Doesnt make sense to me.

"Good or bad this thread is boring cause the inaccurate parts. They are repeated and inaccurate."

Be specific on what parts are inaccurate and back it will facts or else its just your opinion.

"Me pushing a general release for 4.4 and 4
5 was the new avenue. Cause it was so bad"

Nice to have a name to blame for that dumpster fire that was 4.4 getting released which has soured so many to this great sim. You speak on others having an agenda while you pushed the release of 4.4 so you could get this sim where you personally wanted it to be. You are happy with 4.5 and dont want to rock the boat because YOU are having success. Thats why Im not in Beta because the goal of beta should be to improve the overall gameplay for everyone, not to shape the game to your personal desires so you play better.

"I was hoping you come up with a break down of who's actually left and came and jow thats related to past code releases"

I dont work for MFN, Im a paying customer trying to have fun. I dont have the time or energy to figure all that out. I post my opinion on here based on conversations with only league admins and watching leagues dry up and die. Im sure JDB can pull up that information in no time.


"I see little difference here...except its a defensive minded code. But thats only cause of the complexity/sensitivity and time and effort it take to align to make every one happy"

That really doesnt make sense. Yes its a defensive minded code but who are you referencing with the make every one happy. Confused.

"Look at the difference it has made by investing all my time and effort in beta"

What exactly are you taking credit for here. I havent been here 2 years and Im not in beta. I didnt know you were powerful and influential to the game

"I believe he will listen and make necessary changes now. In the past I believed he was too easily influenced by threads like this. Not that the masses are wrong. But you have to believe at this stage"

Wow. You have JDB right where you want him now. All it took was to push the release of a broken version to drive home your point. Why would JDB listen to all his idiot customers when he has someone like you to show him the light. Talk about having an agenda and spelling it out. Dont listen to everyone JDB, how dare the commoners not in beta how an opinion. Shut it down and shut them up.

"But when you build a real venture from scratch you devise a plan, put the pieces together, and execute no matter the feedback"

REALLY

Teaming up with customers to accelerate R&D has become a common practice in many industries. An additional effect is that by consulting consumers in the product development phase, companies are able to meet their expectations. By doing so, companies save the time and resources that would otherwise be spent on developing rarely or never used features.

Such mutually beneficial partnerships can help companies stay competitive in a global market that’s more challenging with each passing day.

Integrating customer knowledge in the research and development phase is a way of refining products both before and after launch. The information collected on various channels can be easily filtered and integrated into R&D. Thus, the customer transcends the buyer role and is actually transformed into a focus group member who could come up with the next breakthrough.

"Are you in or out...cause this is falling on deaf ears. I want you, but posts like this put you in the realm of users that I can divulge info from by watching your games. But I need guys who are willing to give it up and often. Isolate things...not necessarily try to win at all costs"

Whats the benefit package? Im not here to work, Im here to have fun. I dont break down game films and dont know anything to help JDB make his game better other then giving a persceptive from a paying customer about what makes his game fun and what makes its frustrating. Im here to build a roster and compete against others and hopefully win some championships. My contribution to this game is creating fun active leagues that are full and thriving. So Im in for the game but out when it comes to work.

"Without it the progress of this game will move at a snails pace"

Good 4.4 should never have been released and it was so bad, they had to rush 4.5. We should still be in 4.3 until all the kinks of 4.5 were play tested out so a snails pace sounds perfect to me. I dont want to have to go through 3 different versions in 3 straight seasons again. Thats why people left and why this thread was started

"And if you think someone might not pass us up is rude to the potential of the game and other coders. I came from another game that went under."

Does the game have to evolve yes but this game is far enough along that new versions need to be stable before release which means longer beta testing. 4.4 should never have had a general release. It was a hugh step backwards and damaged this game by driving off an established customer base and pissing off the ones that stayed. Im happy you loved it but you are definitely in the minority. And you keep saying "us" like we all work for MFN. Look I love the sim and readily support it financially by buying credits. Ive bought enough credits to buy Madden several times over but my loyalty ends as a customer. If another football sim comes out that blows this one away, then I will probably play it and tell all my friends here about it.

"I dont want that here, and that's what this thread feels like to me. Constructive or not humans are not machines and a lot of parts of this thread just dont feel right."

I contribute in cash and by giving my honest opinion. If you dont like it, dont read it because this isnt just your game or forum to dictate whose opinions matter. You want facts to support statements in this thread but you end by talking about how you feel about this thread and its content. Why does how I feel not matter but your feelings are central to your complaint.

"Only JDB knows the truth and I believe him. He's not touched this thread has he? I haven't followed the beginning very much?"

JDB has posted twice in this thread and you posted on the 2nd page of this thread so thats pretty near to the beginning.

"The false statements is what stuck out to me. I guess its perception. Maybe mines negative, but I bet on myself all time and believe there no wrong moves"

Again no specifics thus just your opinion about false statements. The first true thing you wrote, "I guess its perception" so you recognize that others may perceive things differently thus having differing opinions but then you ruin it by basically saying you are always right

"The brightest part is possible mfn1 recruitment...change is good and is a universal energy. Little point to fight it. Gentle communication gets effective results. I am working on that here."

Change is only as good as the change made. Changing from 4.3 to 4.4 wasnt good period. Change needs to be measured and tested before implementation. I can only imagine that changes in the code can have cascading effects on every aspect of the game. By simulating a season of 4.4 in beta before release, any decent owner would have seen the glaring flaws and put a stop to it. The change from 4.4 to 4.5 was good only because it was better then 4.4 but not necessarily better for the game as a whole. Yes thats my opinion but an opinion shared by others.

Someone whom is such a major influencer in Beta should not be biased. Dissecting strategies from users you have issues with and taking it to Beta for deconstruction and the express purpose of 'taking it down' is mean spirited and just wrong.

You should resign, quite honestly.

Come on guys... JDB has already stated that testing new code will be vetted and done more thoroughly. That's really all that needs to be known. Beyond that, all the talk and frustrations about the past, the giving and taking of things personally... most of it is just semantics and splitting hairs. I for one am ignoring this thread from now on because it's no longer productive and it's beating a dead horse with Captain Obvious by it's side.

I like this game.
I hope everyone continues to play.
I hope JDB and the beta testers can improve the code to everyone's liking as much as possible.
I hope everyone can be civil and patient with each other.

Just as damaging to a game, and sometimes more so, is the negativity amongst the players that can create such a negative atmosphere that it causes people to leave.

Clicking ignore now.

I apologize for the negativity but I get highly upset when someone basically tells everyone to shutup, their opinion doesnt matter and the thread is pointless.

This is a community forum where everyone should have the freedom to express themselves.

Its fine to disagree with someones opinion but I draw the line at attempting to belittle, dismiss, or censure someone by saying their opinion doesnt matter or is pointless.

Its possible to debate an opinion without passing some sort of judgement.