I wanted to make a thread that is specifically for the issues that 0.4.3 addresses, now that we are playing games again in the beta leagues. Just as a reminder, the things 0.4.3 deals with are:

* QBs should come in cold off the bench and it should take a little bit for a new QB to get into rhythm. Obviously this is to combat the ability to keep 'fresh' QBs on the field. I also reduced some of the fatigue impact on QBs.
* Since the end of the last season, I've attempted to add some pressure on QBs to get sack numbers up a little bit higher.
* Removed holding calls far away from the play.
* General QB decision making should be better, throwing to the open receiver more often. (Note that just because the QB doesn't throw to the best receiver does not mean this isn't working, because he still will make poor decisions - but in general, he should be making a better decision more often than previously)
* QB should be releasing the ball much more quickly
* M2M coverage should be improved, where WR can juke and lose their M2M coverage, and good M2M coverage should reduce passes into tight coverage and reduce the success of passes that do go into tight coverage. Again, there will still be successful passes into tight coverage, but it should be more rare than before.
* DL interceptions should be significantly reduced

Quite a few items there. If you notice an issue specifically with these items - which means new issues that these changes created, or issues that these changes should have addressed but didn't - please post comments and plays to this thread. If there are other bugs relating to other aspects, please continue to post them into separate threads to be looked at in a future version. I'll also start another thread to get feedback on what items are the biggest pain points to look into for 0.4.4.

Gut feel: No where near ready for prime time.

General observtions

1) WRs still win 90% of all 1-on-1 battles.
2) CBs don't play the ball at all when playing M2M.
3) #12 below sums up the entire game right now.

Film review

1) [M2M Cover] https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7355#1328744
a) Bad jam at the line lets the WR get the upper hand.

2) [M2M Cover] https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7355#1328745
a) Good hand fighting down the field, but eventually the DB gives up coverage.

3) [QB Decision / RB Passing] https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7355#1328749
a) QB doesn't let the RB get in position.

4) [M2M Cover] https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7355#1328760
a) The QB is throwing the ball away here, but the WR still manages to catch it for a TD.

5) [M2M Cover] https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7355#1328767
a) Both defenders have 100 Punish here. Neither stands a chance.

6) [M2M Cover] https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7355#1328768
a) Nelson gets credit for the knockdown here, but that's complete BS. The ball is knocked away by the LB who drops back to play the ball after the FB stays into block. That means the guy away from the play is the only player playing the ball in this situation, but the CB got the credit.

7) [QB Decision / RB Passing] https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7355#1328770
a) QB throws the ball too soon so the pass ends up behind where the RB is going to cut.

8) [M2M Cover] https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7355#1328771
a) WR embarrasses 100 Punish CB.

9) [M2M Cover] https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7355#1328776
a) QB throws the ball while running sideway perfectly to a WR that should have been blanketed by the DB. This is noteworthy because this has become a common play.

10) [M2M Cover] https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7355#1328780
a) It would be nice to see a CB win _ONE_ of these.

11) [B&R / M2M] https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7355#1328785
a) 90 SP CB decides to come up and jam the 76 SP WR and pays a steep price. I don't know why he was playing B&R here. It doesn't make any sense.

12) [M2M Cover] https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/7355#1328786
a) 100 Punish CB can't get the job done against the 61 Courage WR with horrible route This is the state of the game right here.

I am in much agreement here, but the game is in beta. Bumps are expected and running codes throughout the whole site really signifies the communities problem s. If you need b and R to press and Man to man to blitz . ...just let it ride. Cause you need speed and strength to win in this game and that's not going to change. But really the more test samples the better. This code seem good but I feel it is defensive oriented, only cause of the lack of real life counters to blitzes . In 87 I held a team to 47 yards total with very little effort .

I don't have a problem with how B&R works. I have a lot of problems with bad pre-snap decisions being driven off of B&R. Right now, low B&R players are more likely to play B&R, which means they are more likely to fall down on the play, which means the medium passes that are such an annoyance will be more of an annoyance.

The other major problem with B&R right now is with LB and TE interactions. The SLB will fall down on almost every play against a TE with elite B&R Avoid. The reason is the same reason why bad B&R CBs try to jam. The SLB plays up on the TE, the TE avoids the jam and ends up wide open. Until the last draft class, LBs were not being generated with B&R, so the only way to get TEs with B&R was to convert DL.

Pushing a couple of tweaks today in regards to setherick's film review:

* Trying to fix the RB dump pass timing
* Reducing the probability a low B&R WR will play B&R, and also trying to reduce it further if he is concerned about being beat because the WR is faster
* Reworking the punish receiver logic a bit to address the items listed by setherick

I haven't done any long-term testing yet but will over the next few days to make sure this doesn't ruin passing stats, but in general the plays this should impact should be the ones most obviously in error. Hopefully those high-punish CBs will have more impact with this update.

All right, we've had a couple of games with the most recent patches - any comments? Is it better? Worse? Some of each? The same?

I haven't had time to go through the film closely. I was going to do that after tonight's game in 87.

One quick observation from preseason and game 1 in MFN-1 is that the cheater defense looks like it'll continue to dominate with no repercussions at all. I put up an absurd number of sacks and held my opponent to few running yards despite the fact that my team should have been called for play overuse basically all game. When I look through the film, I'll see if play overuse actually made a difference at all. My gut says that it didn't.

Remember - the focus of this thread is specifically the items that 0.4.3 is attempting to address. I think what you're doing is going to be a strong case for the 0.4.4 focus, which I'd like to have an in-depth discussion about specifically with ideas of what logic needs to change to fix it.

Right, but if what I'm doing is made worse by the 0.4.3 changes, then it still belongs in this thread. Mostly what I've been focused on right now is M2M and B&R coverage since QBs were destroying teams. What I have seen at least looking at the stats from the past few games I've played in is that QBs are still completing a lot of passes, but the yardage is down. This suggests that coverage is better since teams are not giving up big plays, but this is purely speculative right now until I really dig into the film. And even then, only in Beta-87 am I actually game planning. :)

General observations because I still haven't taken the time to watch a lot of film and get specifics.

1) Convoying QBs - The backup QBs in the convoy QB systems are no longer playing well, and in fact, are starting to look like a liability. Here's three examples from 87:

* https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/team/22

* https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/team/17

* https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/team/31

Now, that said, without watching the games, the QB1 is still getting the benefit of being pulled from the game by letting his fatigue levels return to 100. So even if the team suffers when the QB2 or QB3 is in the game, it's not that big of an effect on the QB1. A really radical idea would be to have the QB1 suffer the same in the game cold penalties as the QB2 since the QB1 is getting benched. He'll need a few plays to get back into the flow of the game, etc.

2) Sacks have come back with a vengeance. That's a good thing. It'll keep people from playing those <20 Pass Block OL.

3) Sacks being up is OK because QBs are now more accurate than ever. I'm pretty sure this has to do with decision making since coverage is OK (more on that later). Actually, I'm completely sure this is due to decision making. And I'm happy with it for the most part. A QB that has time in the pocket should be able to find an open receiver.

4) QBs dump the ball off to the RB more now. That's great. I see a lot more dump offs than throwing the ball into triple coverage.

Could still be improved

1) WRs are still winning a lot of battles against top corners. Receivers already had the advantage of Courage being stronger than Punish. But now they have the advantage of being able to use stutter and other route moves against a DB's M2M. DB skills could use one more boost. Top DBs should dominate WRs the same way that top QBs should shred bad defenses.

2) I hate to say this, but pressure should effect passing accuracy more now that QBs can make decisions faster. I know this was tweaked during the sack every down while the QB stared at a WR days, but with QBs making quicker decisions, pressure should mean pressure. Especially for already low accuracy QBs.

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Specific observations from a few games in 87.

1) [QB Decision] https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1094#202155
a) I've notice a lot of hot reads like this where the ball doesn't get to the receiver. I've also noticed a lot of "throw away" passes that are real slow moving passes to a receiver instead of out of bounds. I think this happens when the QB tries to ground the ball.

2) [QB Decision] https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1094#202191
a) Good example here of a QB reading the blitz and getting rid of the ball before coming under pressure. Not a first down unfortunately, but close.

3) [Sacks/Blocking] https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1094#202199
a) THE TELEPORTING OL RETURNS! The RT just disappears after he starts to block the LDE. Where does he go?

4) [M2M Coverage] https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1094#202208
a) Why do CBs always, ALWAYS, give up inside position? This more than anything drives me up the wall about M2M coverage.

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Different game

1) [QB Decision] https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1103#203731
a) QBs NEED TO RUN when no one is open. Why are they still taking sacks for no reason? I know this QB is slow, but he can throw the ball away (QBs aren't doing that either) or he could run for a few yards. Instead he takes a 0.4.0 style sack.

2) [Sacks / Blocking] https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1103#203734
a) TELEPORTING TACKLE!Seriously, why does this one happen?

3) [M2M Coverage] https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1103#203745
a) I had to slow this one down and watch it five or six times to figure out what is happening. I THINK THIS SHOWS HOW COVERAGE IS COMPLETELY BROKEN. The CB covering the right inside receiver is playing loose coverage like normal - I can't figure out if he's trying to jam or not. So he's a few steps behind the receiver he's supposed to be covering when the ball is in the air. At the same time the ball is thrown, the outside receiver crosses the field. The CB that is supposed to cover the inside WR running deep AND the receiver that is going to end up with the ball STOPS tracking the inside receiver and starts running parallel with the WR running the cross (3:34) UNTIL the ball cross over the plane where that receiver. Once the ball crosses the plane where the outside receiver is running, AND ONLY THEN, do the CB that was originally covering the outside receiver and the CB covering the inside receiver realize that the ball is going to the inside receiver and turn and chase. The CB covering the inside receiver has to do a little dance first but whatever, the play is blown by then. Why does the CB stop covering his assigned man when it is obvious the man he switches to will not get the ball? Are CBs tracking the ball in a 2D plane as opposed to a 3D plane? Finally, why are CBs still running parallel to receivers when the ball reaches the receiver?

4) [M2M Cover] https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1103#203748
a) Same thing as number #3 happens here but it's more subtle. The LB is slow to track the RB out of the backfield - this is a separate problem that I've just started to notice, so I haven't found a lot of good examples of it yet. As soon as the ball is in the air, the LB turns to track the TE running across his face, but then turns back to the RB. Since it's taken him so long to track his man, though, the RB has an easy first down. LBs that are playing coverage need to react to RBs in the backfield faster. They should be moving parallel to track the player, but mostly LBs stand around until the RB breaks the LOS.

5) [M2M Cover] https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1103#203750
a) Here's another example of bad coverage on the RB out of the backfield. In this play, the SS does track the RB parallel as the RB moves along the LOS, but the SS stays 6 yards deep instead of coming up to the LOS. So the RB can catch the ball and head toward the first down. The SS seals the marker, but the RB shouldn't have gotten more than a yard here.

6) [QB Decision] https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1103#203767
a) The QB does everything he possibly can to NOT run the ball. Sheesh. He has a 20 yard lane even with his speed. This is ridiculous.

7) [M2M Cover] https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1103#203775
a) Bad coverage by the LB on the RB.

8) [QB Decision] https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1103#203783
a) QB won't throw the ball away. Almost convinced that QBs are not throwing the ball away at all anymore.

9) [M2M Cover] https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1103#203788
a) Bad RB coverage again. Good coverage in terms of the defender tracking the RB parallel. Bad in that the tracking is 8 yards deep. The RB doesn't catch the ball tho.

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EDIT: Knockdowns are way down. In Beta-87, through 3 games, one player has 3 knockdowns and 17 have 2 knockdowns.

Sacks are way up, but I think it's because QBs aren't throwing the ball away or running. If QBs were doing those two things, I think sacks would be down.