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Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By setherick
5/15/2018 6:16 am
10 INTs in my game from two QBs that had 66% completions. No point in watching the game.

To be clear, this suggests there is something unnecessary that is causing the INTs.

Without looking at the stats, I'm willing to bet that something in the calculations is crossed. I know that knockdowns weren't being counted or weren't happening before. I'm willing to bet that the calculation for knockdown and the calculation for INT are switched.
Last edited at 5/15/2018 7:54 am

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By raymattison21
5/15/2018 6:41 am
https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1733#316456

I don't even know what this play was but it bothered me most watching the game . As I can copy and paste one play only with only one window open. But really the whole game looked like a glitch . And I could have 30 or 40 plays posted .


https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/player/853

No real skill but he shut down my elite wr. Zero for five. Numerous other plays where the lesser value won out. Lower route lower speed but wide open catches. Passing is making no sense .

My qb had receded one sack . My oline gave up zero hurries, but for some reason . ..every pass play riddled my qb with wobbly passes. End result after they used the same blitz over 20 times was a wide drop by the running back. Like 20 of them...my qb was at 29% comp.

Really , my two starting wrs were 2 for 13 . They face some slow DBs but could find space despite superior ratings . My only guess it was the qb 75 arm 97 accuracy but sub 50 every other relevant passing category .

Hot reads to the worst possible option. Two dlineman interceptions . For some reason , probably offensive play abuse or fatigue , my opponents qb threw for 80+% completion rate in the first half but fell apart and threw 6 ints in the second .

That stutter needs to leave a little gap a 90 speed 75 man cb getting beat by 15 yards by a 75 speed 68 route is the worst to see.

And I pretty sure blitzes that leave guys wide open only for them to drop it is the second worst thing about this change.

Long passing is ruined because of it. Take all the long passes of all the teams and the numbers have to be horrible . The only catches are those diving ones vs. Double coverages but wide opens are drops?

3rd....line play is not making much sense either. My line is A grade....they did well...but a decent linemen for my opponent gave up four sacks. My dline is good but not great. It almost seems cover sacks are too high and blitz sacks too low, but playing coverage doesn't help out the dbs any but blitzing does .

Blitzing should be easy to pass on ....it wasn't and until offensive abuse took over that my cover defense starts to do well. Where blitzes stifled my qb all game. Most passes went RB out of the backfield , half of he time they caught it and they made up for 80 percent of my pass yards.

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By raymattison21
5/15/2018 9:06 am
setherick wrote:
10 INTs in my game from two QBs that had 66% completions. No point in watching the game.

To be clear, this suggests there is something unnecessary that is causing the INTs.

Without looking at the stats, I'm willing to bet that something in the calculations is crossed. I know that knockdowns weren't being counted or weren't happening before. I'm willing to bet that the calculation for knockdown and the calculation for INT are switched.



Idk? Fits for my first reg. Season game 8 interceptions 1 knock down , but leaves my preseason interceptions pretty high at 11 four games but with 12 knockdowns .......which I see as fair.

Knockdowns happen but are not always recorded . I saw at least oNE last game, but I know there was more . In the nfl they are Really they are an 80+ percent guaranteed completion that are taken away by the defender .

I don't see that happening here. Maybe on short passes but a missed knock down on a deep pass will be a drop for the wr under this code .

IRL if a defender is in position for a knockdown he be right on top of wr. I don't see that enough out of elite cover guys. Other knockdowns would come from being in the passing lane. DL with there hands up. Lbs/safties lurking......... Alot of the passing lane ones are not recorded at all here.
Last edited at 5/15/2018 1:39 pm

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
5/15/2018 2:41 pm
Doing some data analysis and yes, ints are way too high. I'll try to get those into a more reasonable rate in the next few days. Completion rates are right in line with the NFL, I may want to attribute more of the incomplete passes to be DB knockdowns instead of drops.

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By raymattison21
5/15/2018 6:28 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
Doing some data analysis and yes, ints are way too high. I'll try to get those into a more reasonable rate in the next few days. Completion rates are right in line with the NFL, I may want to attribute more of the incomplete passes to be DB knockdowns instead of drops.


I still would like those number to be as realistic as possible . ..I felt knock downs were a bit easy under the last major code release . Some guys getting 3 a game and a lot of players getting 2 a game .

IRL it's tough to defend two passes a game. Only a handful players really hit that number and teams are lucky get 4 or 5 a game consistently .

I think it the qbs to focus on as well . IRL Only a few really threw in tight coverage(with a guy closer than a one yard) more than a quarter of the time and they were guys who threw short more often than not.

I see our qbs are not making the best decisions , but I am basing this off mostly my qbs who are not the best. It seems well rounded qbs are playing better under this code. As accuracy seems less valueable now.

I am ok with that balance but still alot of great qbs are under performing but that could be anecdotal .

This balance is tough but we should have tighter coverage . That stutter should have much less of an effect . I want elite CBs to force FOV to be more valuable . ....same as look off, but zone needs some work to evaluate that more.

Right now a deep coverage call should force qbs/ gameplans to throw short in which should cause release and route to open up space in those shorter routes, but going over the top should still work if guys are blitzing and leaving one on one on the outside.

Lower the ints on short passes and in general but if they got help over the top on deep passes those completions should be lower and knockdowns and ints should be higher, but I am not seeing that balance yet.

Top qbs should shred most of it unless pressure and coverage is tight . ...then we should see dump offs cause it seems strong either way. A forced pass into double or well cover recievers or a quick dump. To me that balance is a bit sensitive . Dumping off is not a legit strategy but it works great right now.

We are getting closer but to accurately evaluate anything I think we should look are zone as well. I really wish the abuse penalty was reserved for blitzes only then faze that out eventually .

My team in 87 ran really well vs. The overused blitz but due to poor qb reads (my qb is sub 50 at breaking the blitz ) really played bad. I think that with tighter coverage and better reads would make stuff look more real.

Our completion rates are good enough due to dump offs but are low when throw short to wrs and TEs . But Lbs are not forcing RBs to cut it back up feild....they are shaking coverage due to the stutter (or something like that) as I see it in the verbage often. It not that hard to cover a swing pass. If anything you over run it and they cut back up feild . Only the fastest backs should beat LBS to the sideline .
Last edited at 5/15/2018 6:41 pm

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
5/15/2018 9:01 pm
Pushed an update tonight. Ints should be down, and I believe I found an issue that was causing the accuracy attribute to be less effective than I intended for it to be.

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By raymattison21
5/16/2018 6:22 am
Why this db get left in the dust. He's faster and better man. The 100 zone FS over commits to the siding as well .

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8056#1461432


Safety doesn't get deep , 50 speed CB gets beat deep , elite wrs drops it and somehow the cb gets a knockdown . This never will ever happen irl.

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8056#1461450

Two other wide open options and 97 FOV throws into double coverage .

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8056#1461451

98 man 94 speed gets beat by the stutter of a 85 route 76 speed wr then somehow comes up with the pick after the ball bounces of the wrs back.

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8056#1461456

No body deep , CB gets beat, wide open drop by elite wr.

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8056#1461485

3rd and short 97 FOV qb forces the ball instead of the easy dump.

Why force this pass as well. Easy dump.

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8056#1461492

Another easy dump.

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8056#1461493

Wide open drop. Good call . Good match up. Saftey over commits. Looks bad.

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8056#1461501

Same. If stuff gonna stay this way we need better dbs. Just left in the dust, but it's a 90 vs a sub 60.

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8056#1461511

This is a little off subject but a problem with the code. 80%+ of the run blocks here were held for the entire play. (15 seconds long!) One reason krs went through the roof and we can't have bruisers breaking alot of tackles.

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8056#1461516

Throw the ball. They are wide open. He's a talented vet who can't run a play action .

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8056#1461520

A quick swing wouldn't be un herd of here out of a veteran or most normal qbs.

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8056#1461521

Why throw in to double coverage here. Clearly presnap the defense is in double the outside . First he should have checked the right slot. Forced that if anything or rolled right to find more time and throw it away.

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8056#1461531



Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By raymattison21
5/17/2018 5:46 am
Wr beats db deep and qb misses wide open. Looks better.

https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1757#320427

WR beats db and qb misses wide open. Not so good.

https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1757#320430

Slot wide open short. QB misses. Not good.

https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1757#320433

Wide open slot, short, and miss.

https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1757#320456

Two dumps and the slot wide open and the qb throws in to double coverage . Granted he has low FoV.

https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1757#320458

77 route vs. 73 man leaves DB ten yards in the dust.

https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1757#320462

Three wide open short options and the qb goes into double coverage .

https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1757#320505

This TE is slower, accelerates slower, has less B&R, and route, but beats the LB . Just makes no sense

https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1757#320510

The slot is double coveraged well by NB and SS. Both defenders have higher punish yet this qb manages to seek his fourth or fifth completion in to really tight coverage . It's not the worst but only the qb is elite offensively . 85 courage for the wr so it is not the worst . But all four of his receptions were catch overs.

https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1757#320513

In general it all looked better, but this is 87. Different talent pool here. Couple of sacks by lesser dline men but acceptable.

Last edited at 5/17/2018 5:55 am

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
5/17/2018 8:21 am
One thing I do want to chime in on - just because a player has a better skill than another doesn't mean they win 100% of the time. If the difference is significant they should win significantly more often than not, but I bet you could find plays where even Darrelle Revis got beat in his prime. So it doesn't bother me to see the occasional DB getting beat against a lesser WR; it only bothers me if it happens on a significantly frequent basis. So, with that in mind, do you feel like what you're seeing is within an acceptable threshold or do you feel like it's too frequent?

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By raymattison21
5/17/2018 9:10 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
One thing I do want to chime in on - just because a player has a better skill than another doesn't mean they win 100% of the time. If the difference is significant they should win significantly more often than not, but I bet you could find plays where even Darrelle Revis got beat in his prime. So it doesn't bother me to see the occasional DB getting beat against a lesser WR; it only bothers me if it happens on a significantly frequent basis. So, with that in mind, do you feel like what you're seeing is within an acceptable threshold or do you feel like it's too frequent?


Just speaking of the 87 game I would give it a B +.

Columbus s defense made decent calls to fit there talent, and my qb isn't great at all. The balance seemed to baffle him.

Where my defense is very straight forward for this code. CBs in man and safties mostly in zone.

Columbus had technical recievers that worked with their technical QB. Thier TES and slot out played my better lbs and NB where my TE and slot did little vs. Thier good LBs and weak NB, but I will chalk that up to their much better qb.

Those plays I posted were all anomalies . If RNG is to blame I was ok with it. As my speedy technical route running wrs with lower catch/ courage created space but could not make the play.

The qbs 3rd options with FoV and look off taken into account made it all plausible . So I am ok but would love others experiences posted as well.

Both teams didn't blitz alot and I would love to see a legit heavy defenses results.

As a measure, my elite wr 1 went 4 catches for 75 yards and one td. (Most of it on the last drive). And there legit CB1 picked off two passes early on but got beat on that last drive. It was a crucial penalty and one on one coverage that gave me the win. Very RNG themed drive. Very exciting and realistic .

So, I liked it but would like to see more games. Especially with my mfn 1 team which has a better passing game.

Some stutters could have been a little tighter as ten yards is tough to see. But I think there was only two real bad ones that game .

In mfn1 the talent pool is slightly larger so more match ups will be closer in terms the RNG having an effect .

Overall , imo I would say great work!

Another side note ....75% of sacks happened real late in the game(like the last three drives)...automatic pass key?