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Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By Ragnulf-le-maudit
6/15/2018 11:29 pm
Watching the first CFL game, I was interested to see some adjustments, dives or jumps, and slowing down by WRs and RBs on short passes. I know it's not the NFL, the field is wider and the players less talented, but it's still professional football.

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By setherick
6/16/2018 6:40 am
1) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1958#356349
a) Best example of trail coverage being broken by stutter that I've seen.

2) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1958#356379
a) This one is really bad.

3) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1958#356389
a) Whoa, what? What happens here? The defender goes for the ball I guess, but he ends up 3 yards downfield? That's a big miss in terms of anticipation.

4) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1958#356447
a) Ball placement here is bad.

5) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1958#356469
a) I'm pretty sure the QB was going to use throwaway logic here, but since QBs aren't throwing the ball away, this is an INT.

6) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1958#356486
a) Ooph. This needs looked at still. QB throws it right at the WR. Ball ends up with the DB that is 2 yards behind.


Last edited at 6/16/2018 6:40 am

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
6/16/2018 8:29 am
setherick wrote:
6) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1958#356486
a) Ooph. This needs looked at still. QB throws it right at the WR. Ball ends up with the DB that is 2 yards behind.


You can actually see if you play it slowly that the ball bounces out of the WR's hands and into the DB's

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By setherick
6/16/2018 8:32 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
setherick wrote:
6) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1958#356486
a) Ooph. This needs looked at still. QB throws it right at the WR. Ball ends up with the DB that is 2 yards behind.


You can actually see if you play it slowly that the ball bounces out of the WR's hands and into the DB's


Ah, that makes more sense then.

BUT that begs the question of why does a 100 hands, wide open WR drop this pitch and catch? Why?
Last edited at 6/16/2018 8:33 am

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By setherick
6/18/2018 5:34 am
Here's why RB passing sucks:

* The penalty that applies when a WR is wide open - the penalty that makes all wide open WRs stop or drop the ball - is being applied to RBs as well. The problem is is that 99% of the time, RBs are going to be wide open when the ball arrives because the LB covering them is playing trail coverage and is going to need to come up to make the play.


1) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500477
a) Look how bad the ball placement is here.

2) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500481
a) Bad drop here.

3) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500484
a) Another bad placement on a quick hook.

4) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500496
a) Marshall sucks as a receiver, but he's only like 2 yards away when he makes this catch. This is bad.

5) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500517
a) Ugh. WR doesn't have the best hands, but short passing is so janky right now that I'm not sure that is what caused this drop.

6) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500520
a) Another drop by the RB. This one has 100 catch.

7) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500534
a) This one is awful.

8) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500554
a) I probably wouldn't mind this one if it was the 20th or so catch adjustment in the first half.

9) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500556
a) This is getting old.

10) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500560
a) Really old.

11) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500566
a) Ridiculously old. MAKE UP YOUR MIND WHETHER YOU ARE GOING TO SCREW PEOPLE OVER THROWING THE BALL LONG OR THROWING THE BALL SHORT. SCREWING PEOPLE FOR DOING BOTH IS STUPID.

12) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500576
a) Like this one. Are you shutting down all passing at this point? Can we just not pass the ball without getting penalties?

13) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500582
a) And this one. I should be able to run at least ONE backfield pass a game without having a catch adjustment penalty applied.

14) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500593
a) Ridiculous...

15) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500601
a) Utterly ridiculous...

16) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500604
a) Utterly completely ridiculous...

17) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8273#1500605
a) So let's take a minute to use this play to show how silly most of the adjustment penalties are right now in beta. The entire game WRs and RBs for both teams have been consistently coming to complete stops when they are wide open or they have been dropping wide open passes. Obviously this is all programmatic in order to slow down the passing game, which is a ridiculous bandaid, but if its going to stay it should actually work. On this play, the QB throws 30 yards downfield, across the field, for a total ball travel of roughly 42 yards. He hits the TE in stride, the TE doesn't have to adjust. Why? Because the TE is covered on this play. The TE is immediately tackled by the deep safety. And that is the reason why the wide open drops and receivers slamming on the brakes in the wide open field is stupid. Neither of those things does anything to make plays like this one any less common.


Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By Ragnulf-le-maudit
6/18/2018 1:36 pm
I found this one a lot better than a few weeks ago. It's not to say that everythong is perfect, but enjoyable.
Some examples.

Good throw and catch
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8279#1501611

Better outside throw. QB throws earlier than before, then the TE have time to turn upfield instead of going out of bounds and makes a huge gain.
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8279#1501612


good throw to the RB despite the adjustment, which doens't seems weird to me.
[/url]https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8279#1501635
[/url]

good throw to the FB
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/8279#1501637

Last edited at 6/18/2018 1:37 pm

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By raymattison21
6/18/2018 7:55 pm
I like where this code is at . Seths drops seemed a bit high, and I am pretty sure league drop are high, but a few guys are not dropping them. Why?

Hands? Courage? Familiarity ? Pressure on the qb , causing fast erratic poorly thrown *****? Distance penalties ? Experience of the recievers ?

I feel familiarity being the strongest as well as the distance penalty are effecting numbers. Experience is tied to familiarity so that's one in the same and seems to be strong as well . Blitzing is still very effective but the jury is still out there to be tested .

This leads to my next question of player to player familiarity being implemented . How will it be used ? How long will it take to make guys have chemistry ?

I kinda see the player to player familiarity being a solution to the unexplained drops. As some nfl rookies just don't have these problems of dropping wide open ***** and the chemistry if gained quick enough could balance out the lack of speed at which play familiarity is gained.

I had suggested in the main forums an instinct attribute which would allow for players with a high football IQ to succeed quicker to the speed of the nfl level of play.

Still either one or both applications were implemented perhaps the distance penalties could go away completely . As to me is about leveling those effects of fast and strong players tied to blitzes .

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By setherick
6/18/2018 10:23 pm
I don't care about the drops. I care that my wide open WRs and RBs come to a dead stop to catch a pass every single time. This basically makes short passing worthless, but really doesn't do anything to slow down medium to long passing games. It just means I have to throw more passes. But at this point, I'm ready to give up on short passing all together and just go to a straight medium passing game because it's super easy to exploit a defense with. You just aren't going to get break away passes.

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By setherick
6/19/2018 5:30 am
WHY THE **** ARE ALL TEAMS RUNNING SO MUCH ON 3-LONG WHEN THE PLAY MATRIX IS SET TO <=5% CHANCE TO RUN?

1) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359756
a) Another good example of why the code that is breaking short passing is dumb. Again we see a pass that travels 40+ yards through the air and hits the WR in stride because the WR was covered and broke down the coverage via stutter. Now mind you, the WR only has 50 route on this play and the defender that gets broken down has 91 M2M. And the QB that makes this pass has an arm of 78. But this is all classic 0.4.2 while three quarters of your short passes are going to need the WR to stop for them. Why not just remove any hamper the QB code because it's obviously not working.

2) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359761
a) Wide open TE drops a for sure first down because the ball only traveled 20 yards in the air.

3) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359763
a) Horribly placed pass because the ball only traveled 20 yards in the air and the QB was under pressure.

4) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359765
a) The ball only traveled 15 yards in the air so the WR had to make an adjustment to catch it.

5) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359768
a) It was a pass to a RB, so the RB had to of course slow down.

6) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359771
a) Yet another pass to a RB where the RB had to make an adjustment.

7) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359772
a) Pass went 25 yards through the air so the QB hit the WR right in stride.

8) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359775
a) A pass to a RB that wouldn't have made a first down anyway, but of course, the RB stopped as soon as he caught it.

9) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359792
a) The RB has the angle so of course he stops and waits to be tackled.

10) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359803
a) Ball traveled <10 yards through the air so of course it was thrown badly.

11) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359810
a) QB threw the ball >30 yards through the air while moving, so of course it was thrown perfectly.

12) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359822
a) Ball travels >20 yards, so QB hits the TE in stride.

13) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359840
a) Ball travels <10 yards, so of course it is a bad pass.

14) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359846
a) Shockingly this ball travels >20 yards through the air and the WR has to make an adjustment. He's wide open though, so he got slammed with the I'm wide open so I must stop code.

15) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359858
a) Another RB swing pass. Another badly thrown ball.

16) https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359865
https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359866
https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359867
https://beta87.myfootballnow.com/watch/1977#359868
a) Watch these back to back to back to back plays because they are a good example of why passing is still utterly broken. First play, QB throws downfield, across the field, into tight coverage and the WR makes an amazing catch to get it. Second play, QB throws a 5 yard in to a wide open WR and the WR can't come close to making the play on the ball. Third play. QB misses another wide open WR badly. Fourth play. QB hits a wide open WR for a 29 yard gain (~40 yards through the air.) But the WR has to come to a complete stop to catch it. Here's everything that's wrong with the passing game still: 1) ***** in to tight coverage completed way too often still, 2) short passing game is still jacked, 3) QBs can't hit wide open WRs when they are within 20 yards, and 4) wide open WRs that do catch the ball have to come to a complete stop. Now, imagine watching 16 games of that and not thinking it's complete BS. Because I think that's where most players are going to feel. They are going to ignore all of the good parts of 0.4.3 because the game is more illogical now than before.




Last edited at 6/19/2018 5:32 am

Re: Version 0.4.3 Release Candidate Discussion

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
6/19/2018 7:58 pm
I'm pushing an update to reduce the adjustment on shorter passes tonight.