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Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/30/2020 10:04 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LkioDmirrQ

Then contrast with Roethlisberger. One other thing to note is the misdirection created by a run option play. Where the QB holds the ball out for the RB and either hands off or pulls the ball in and rolls out the other way. The RB can draw the attention of the oncoming rusher and by time.

Final point, the DL quickly run out of gas if they have to run more than 8-10 yards. They basically have a quick burst, reach top speed and then slow quickly rather than run the QB down if he gets loose. I'd say the stamina on each play for a DL is too long which is why you were getting 'sideline sacks' previously

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/30/2020 12:45 pm
TheAdmiral wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LkioDmirrQ

Then contrast with Roethlisberger. One other thing to note is the misdirection created by a run option play. Where the QB holds the ball out for the RB and either hands off or pulls the ball in and rolls out the other way. The RB can draw the attention of the oncoming rusher and by time.

Final point, the DL quickly run out of gas if they have to run more than 8-10 yards. They basically have a quick burst, reach top speed and then slow quickly rather than run the QB down if he gets loose. I'd say the stamina on each play for a DL is too long which is why you were getting 'sideline sacks' previously


Our stamina is tied to weight alone(once conditioning reaches 100). Height should matter too, so that would bode to what you describe above. QBs at 220 and a de at 276. Under older codes(even 4.5) my 255 pound LBers do slow while in pursuit of a smaller guy but it’s after 15- 20 yards or so. Those oxygen masks help recovery but it like our guys have oxygen built into thier suits/helmets.

Simulating fatigue has got to be tough here as irl the body goes and goes then just falls off. Weight does matter but If there not enough recovery time between snaps he’d be pretty slow to start the next snap. Here if you over work a guy he’ll get injured. He will be slower but when and idk exactly by how much?

Late in a game James Harrison picked off a pass and went 90 yards for a pick six. Honestly I didn’t think he make it that last five yards. And he laid down right after cause he was so spent. I don’t see that here. Harrison was jacked but super stocky6’1 255. That body mass index should get tired quickly.

This would lower sacks and but i don’t want 6’ 7 300 pound LT getting as tired as a 6 ‘ at 300 pounds. That could raise sacks.... and smaller would be even better.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/30/2020 12:53 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
TheAdmiral wrote:
I think I've spotted something that is driving sacks up and completions/yards per attempt down.

On Play action plays and/or plays where the QB is flushed out of the pocket he (QB) does not go wide enough and/or deep enough to give himself space to set his feet and throw. He will tuck in behind the Tackle thus immediately blocking out half the field, he then gets stuck and if he doesn't take off and scamper, he gets sacked.

By going wider and/or deeper he will give the play extra time to develop - which should lead to increased output on mid and long passes.

I've been looking at this as coverage sacks to this point, which they are (to a point) as the OL is doing it's job and the QB runs out of time. Here's some examples from my game in Victory today.

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/558#101245

This is a Singleback Normal Quick Slant play against a Nickel Normal Double WR3, he's flushed out but needs to be 2 yards deeper. However, rather than stepping back (and further across) he turns in towards the rusher. If he goes deeper and/or wider the play is extended and he can see more of the field.

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/558#101280

On this play, I formation Normal SE Post against 4-3 Under Double Safety Blitz. He feels the pressure moves out and immediately scampers for 10 yards but he was fortunate to avoid being sacked because again he stays too narrow. This time the blockers are able to do their job and he escapes. By going wider and/or deeper he gives himself time to survey his options before taking off, forcing the secondary to track receivers deep and giving him space to run into if no-one is open and he scrambles - it may ultimately lead to less yards on the scramble than he achieves here but it may also open up the deep ball throw.

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/558#101265

On this play, Split Backs 3 Wide Slot Post against Nickel 335 Cover 2 Man Under. This time it's just a 3 man rush, the OL are handling it but being forced back. Instead of stepping back and/or sideways he steps forward killing his time forcing him to throw the ball away, with the extra time from taking a step or two back the receiver he throws towards should be in a position where he's ready to receive the pass.


Right now the QB's scramble skill is determining how far away from the pocket he is going to be willing to go. Keegan has a scramble skill of 37 (this skill is calculated linearly, not exponentially) which is pretty low. What are you thoughts on that driver?


Pre 4.0 scrambling was great to have. I don’t value it much now but it has to help. Maybe if you have 10 or 98 scrambling you can see a difference. But in what stats. Qb Runs, comp%, ints, avoidance of sacks, or something else. I don’t just see the difference in the stats.

We blitzed a qb in Victory and his fast wrs helped him torch my team. He had a short passing plan alot of skill and scrambling and release. But other teams don’t fair the same. I just don’t think scrambling had much to do with it. I think Speed was the reason but the scramble had to help.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/30/2020 1:10 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
TheAdmiral wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LkioDmirrQ

Then contrast with Roethlisberger. One other thing to note is the misdirection created by a run option play. Where the QB holds the ball out for the RB and either hands off or pulls the ball in and rolls out the other way. The RB can draw the attention of the oncoming rusher and by time.

Final point, the DL quickly run out of gas if they have to run more than 8-10 yards. They basically have a quick burst, reach top speed and then slow quickly rather than run the QB down if he gets loose. I'd say the stamina on each play for a DL is too long which is why you were getting 'sideline sacks' previously


Our stamina is tied to weight alone(once conditioning reaches 100). Height should matter too, so that would bode to what you describe above. QBs at 220 and a de at 276. Under older codes(even 4.5) my 255 pound LBers do slow while in pursuit of a smaller guy but it’s after 15- 20 yards or so. Those oxygen masks help recovery but it like our guys have oxygen built into thier suits/helmets.

Simulating fatigue has got to be tough here as irl the body goes and goes then just falls off. Weight does matter but If there not enough recovery time between snaps he’d be pretty slow to start the next snap. Here if you over work a guy he’ll get injured. He will be slower but when and idk exactly by how much?

Late in a game James Harrison picked off a pass and went 90 yards for a pick six. Honestly I didn’t think he make it that last five yards. And he laid down right after cause he was so spent. I don’t see that here. Harrison was jacked but super stocky6’1 255. That body mass index should get tired quickly.

This would lower sacks and but i don’t want 6’ 7 300 pound LT getting as tired as a 6 ‘ at 300 pounds. That could raise sacks.... and smaller would be even better.



Blocking should be easier than rushing and therefore use less effort/stamina they are basically trying to force a guy to run around him, they are not expected to make tackles and therefore don't have to take as much punishment whereas DL are expected to tackle runners, receivers and QB's . It's part of the reason that running yards are (typically) easier the longer the game goes on as the DL tires quicker. It's also the reason DL are rotated much more than OL, because you want them to be fresh. Teams with little quality or depth on the DL can't generate sacks and will get run over or give the QB enough time to pick them apart.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/30/2020 1:24 pm
Roster Only Franchise Football moved over to BETA in the off season. Today was pre-season game 1 - 86 sacks on the week, obviously teams are using 2nd stringers in the second half.

Just shy of 3 sacks per team. Which is around 48 in a season.

In Victory after 12 weeks teams are averaging around 4.5 sacks per game, which would be approx. 72 sacks in a season (the NFL record for a season is 72!. Ray's team are averaging 8.7 sacks per game, so already have over 100 sacks and will likely hit 130-140 for the season

MFN-1 Sacks are even higher at approx 5 per team although the top outlier is only at 8.4 - on target for 135 sacks
Last edited at 10/30/2020 1:45 pm

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/30/2020 1:40 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
TheAdmiral wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LkioDmirrQ

Then contrast with Roethlisberger. One other thing to note is the misdirection created by a run option play. Where the QB holds the ball out for the RB and either hands off or pulls the ball in and rolls out the other way. The RB can draw the attention of the oncoming rusher and by time.

Final point, the DL quickly run out of gas if they have to run more than 8-10 yards. They basically have a quick burst, reach top speed and then slow quickly rather than run the QB down if he gets loose. I'd say the stamina on each play for a DL is too long which is why you were getting 'sideline sacks' previously


Our stamina is tied to weight alone(once conditioning reaches 100). Height should matter too, so that would bode to what you describe above. QBs at 220 and a de at 276. Under older codes(even 4.5) my 255 pound LBers do slow while in pursuit of a smaller guy but it’s after 15- 20 yards or so. Those oxygen masks help recovery but it like our guys have oxygen built into thier suits/helmets.

Simulating fatigue has got to be tough here as irl the body goes and goes then just falls off. Weight does matter but If there not enough recovery time between snaps he’d be pretty slow to start the next snap. Here if you over work a guy he’ll get injured. He will be slower but when and idk exactly by how much?

Late in a game James Harrison picked off a pass and went 90 yards for a pick six. Honestly I didn’t think he make it that last five yards. And he laid down right after cause he was so spent. I don’t see that here. Harrison was jacked but super stocky6’1 255. That body mass index should get tired quickly.

This would lower sacks and but i don’t want 6’ 7 300 pound LT getting as tired as a 6 ‘ at 300 pounds. That could raise sacks.... and smaller would be even better.



I would suggest that stamina is effected by tackling/being tackled and blocking/being blocked with the defensive team taking a slightly bigger hit on each contact - with lighter players taking bigger hits than heavier

So for example a LT takes 0-0.1 hit on his stamina on each play and a DE would take a hit of 0.05-0.15 on his stamina. Conditioning would have an impact as would weight differential. With underweight rushers taking big hits on stamina forcing them to be used sparingly if at all - thus solving one of the games conundrums right now. (Two Leagues have just formed with strict rules about who can play where based on weight with minimum roster numbers by position)

As a secondary thing, the length of a play should have an impact on the DL and to a lesser extent LB's. If a play is extended from 2.5 seconds to 5 seconds by a QB scrambling then that should have a greater impact on a players stamina level/conditioning/health

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/31/2020 7:22 am
https://ff.myfootballnow.com/watch/956#157850

No real outside factors on this play early in the game. This dB played DE at a ok level with elite speed and very high pass rush. Infinity played a wlb with only speed at DE and he did ok as well.

The LT was decent but is beat pretty easily. I have not found the egregious errors of the 4-6 heavy alignment but smaller is better because they are still decent vs. the run. Even at 191 pounds.

I would love the push part to matter more at some point but what about having the considerably smaller guy fall down from time to time? Something to make these types of players a bit less effective.

That high pass rush would be more relevant when he’s facing a RB. And or his 96 speed wouldn’t beat a slower guy with low risk. Falling down for a second might derail some effectiveness

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/31/2020 3:26 pm
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/12136#2263500

This is a Play Action All Go play. OL does a good job, QB takes a good position. WR1 has beaten his man and has 2 yards of seperation, with no Safety help. Assuming the QB hasn't seen this the 2 LB's are both 10 yards deep so no reason why QB shouldn't scramble for the first down.

Then he finally turns in towards the pressure, when he should be moving into the open space. The QB (Martinez) has 68 scrambling and 94 intelligence.


Also very frustrating to see receivers more likely to catch a ball if the coverage is tight than if they are 2 yards clear of a defender - Will dig out some of the drops from this game later. Some are just routine throws that should be catches, definitely a driving factor in YPA.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
10/31/2020 4:15 pm
TheAdmiral wrote:
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/watch/12136#2263500

This is a Play Action All Go play. OL does a good job, QB takes a good position. WR1 has beaten his man and has 2 yards of seperation, with no Safety help. Assuming the QB hasn't seen this the 2 LB's are both 10 yards deep so no reason why QB shouldn't scramble for the first down.

Then he finally turns in towards the pressure, when he should be moving into the open space. The QB (Martinez) has 68 scrambling and 94 intelligence.


Also very frustrating to see receivers more likely to catch a ball if the coverage is tight than if they are 2 yards clear of a defender - Will dig out some of the drops from this game later. Some are just routine throws that should be catches, definitely a driving factor in YPA.


That’s the wr2 ...Harmon I think. But look at the wr1 the “flanker” he’s covered by SS Layne and his low bump doesn’t even let him get a few yards downfield. I am not exactly sure the read progressions here but if he wr1 doesn’t finish his route what happens? Laynes bump is around 70 andnis boosted because the LBer flats play isn’t penalized for overuse but this was your 5 call for this long pass.

Whatever Laynes bump is here it says it’s too strong. Overpowered to the only explanation is the flanker fell down and crawled . Open that up by not penalizing offensive plays that face base sets or lower what bump can do to the speed of the route.

Even when these two plays faced each other earlier in the game the WR 1 only got ten yards down field before the QBs was sacked. I want to see some bomb passes!

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
10/31/2020 6:18 pm
My bad, it was the #2 WR who was wide open. Even if he was 4th read (behind WR1, TE and FB - who were all in one on ones) the QB was open when he (WR2) reached the end of his assignment (20 yards) he then has time to run another 10 downfield and then comeback 10 yards before the sack.

It was the one and only time we called this play in the game. We called a Weak I All go twice prior so there shouldn't be any overuse penalty.