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Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By setherick
11/15/2020 4:06 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
I expect we would see a lot more/better running in a more experienced league.


I think running is controllable by a team that knows how to game plan the home running hitters. And in general, I like the improvements to run blocking because it opens up some of the running plays that didn't work before. (Still exploring what others may work.)

The only problem that I have with passing is that the clean percentage for Long passes and many Medium passes is so low. I would expect this would be in the clean% for Long passes to be between 40-50 with more pressures than sacks. What I'm seeing is that on plays that have pressure the QB is getting sacked a lot more than being pressured.

I stated this above, but it got lost in a whole lot of noise, so I'll restate is again in bold:

The other problem with long passes is that QBs aren't throwing the ball early enough and letting receivers go and run under the ball.

NFL QBs release a long pass when the receiver is at least 20 yards from the point where the ball is going to be caught. Otherwise, receivers have to stop for a pass. This is what happens in MFN.

There are still far too few _overthrown_ passes. Because QBs wait until a receiver is perfectly open and then teleport a pass there. Instead of throwing a pass in a hole and letting the receiver fight to get there.
Last edited at 11/15/2020 5:44 pm

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Infinity on Trial
11/17/2020 12:21 pm
I know the sack problem has been covered, but here's a game in which a near-perfect pass blocker gives up a sack on four different offensive plays: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/log/12253

The LT:
https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/player/15467

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Smirt211
11/17/2020 12:36 pm
I believe I see 21 sacks total. I'll isolate to these 4 given up by Reeves.

#1: WR Streaks vs. the Seth Play - like Vince McMahon's entrance music...You got no chance....no chance in ****. lol

#2: Singleback Empty 4 Slot Crosses - Coverage sack. This play can go both ways. It's effective but also takes on water. Usable, not like #1. ^

#3: I Formation Twin WR Slot Hitch - This one is disturbing because it's a sneaky play in a lesser exposed formation. Pass key but Crash Right can get blown up. Prolly being in pass key made that one happen.

#4: Singleback Slot Strong HB Checkdown - Mmm. I pulled up the visual. I bet this is an example of code being written to not sling it to the RB; also factoring in the new QB scramble dynamic on each pass play. Makes 'em hang in for the sack on shorter routes but a chance to dodge on longer routes. In any event, yeah, not good.


This was in Beta, right....(MFN-1, so yeah)
Last edited at 11/17/2020 12:37 pm

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Infinity on Trial
11/18/2020 11:01 pm
This guy's rushing numbers give me hope for slower RBs to have an impact, if they have elite ball carry: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/player/16902

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Smirt211
11/19/2020 7:29 am
https://usflwfl.myfootballnow.com/player/8319

I used to not like this player, however, with the 90 ball carry and a high acceleration I can do damage with him.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
11/20/2020 10:41 am
@jdavidbakr Any chance of an update on what your focusing on with regards to game development and whether you think you've achieved the initial goals?

Spend the last couple of weeks fine tuning some variables in the engine to try to restore sacks. In unit testing I also noticed that rushing stats have been low compared to NFL averages, so I made some tweaks to that as well. What I expect to see with this version:

1) Sacks should be back and should arrive around the NFL norm of 7% with normal play calling.
2) Rushing stats should in general grow from a league average of around 3 yards per carry up to the NFL average of around 4 yards per carry.
3) Completion percentage in my massive testing should be around 60%. I changed the logic a little to try to reduce the number of longer pass plays getting dumped to the outlet too quickly, and also tried to reduce the decisions for a QB to throw into tight coverage. Once we restore the DB play that is shelved, I imagine this logic will need to be revisited, but right now I just want to get a stable 0.4.6 out without those DB coverage updates.
4) Interception percentage should be around 2.5%, also in line with NFL stats.
5) Yards per attempt is low and I'm struggling to figure out how to bring it up.

To seth's comments in the previous version thread, yes, I do run lots of automated testing to verify that the stats come out reasonable. Depending on the goals of the changes, though, some stats (like YPA) may not be resolving to a satisfactory value just because I am not able to really understand why from such a macro view. That's where your film study is so helpful. Further, the best laid plans never survive the first interaction with actual humans running the engine... the stats with my unit testing never line up with what happens with humans running the teams. That's why I'm relying on you guys - my 'boots on the ground' - to help identify on a micro level things that are not working.

Oh, one more comment about this update - please someone continue to try to get the punt block exploit to work. I want to make sure the increasing of sacks is not also going to reinstate that exploit.
Last edited at 11/20/2020 10:43 am

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Infinity on Trial
11/21/2020 10:03 am
My run/pass balance completely flipped despite not making any changes to my gameplan.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
11/22/2020 7:05 am
Infinity on Trial wrote:
My run/pass balance completely flipped despite not making any changes to my gameplan.


Game flow?

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Infinity on Trial
11/23/2020 12:58 pm
TheAdmiral wrote:
Infinity on Trial wrote:
My run/pass balance completely flipped despite not making any changes to my gameplan.


Game flow?


One of my longstanding complaints is the extreme randomness of the playcalling matrix. I could pass or run the ball on 90% of the snaps, and both would be in the realm of statistical possibility.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
11/23/2020 1:22 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
TheAdmiral wrote:
Infinity on Trial wrote:
My run/pass balance completely flipped despite not making any changes to my gameplan.


Game flow?


One of my longstanding complaints is the extreme randomness of the playcalling matrix. I could pass or run the ball on 90% of the snaps, and both would be in the realm of statistical possibility.


“Add control to reduce weight of each play by a percentage each time it is used”

This is in the “up next” part of the road map. I am not sure if your referring to this, or something else as I think I remember Seth posting something on a while back.

It has 43 votes lower on the vote counter than some other possible changes but my teams will call plays that should be called with more even balance of a distribution. That part does seem pretty random to me.