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Re: updates for 0.4.1

By setherick
11/23/2016 7:27 pm
Mr.Krazy wrote:
As long as you're not calling the same play 10+ times a game, I don't think it will really matter. I don't really have an opinion on this since I have yet to see it play through in a game yet.

Once the season begins, then i'll have a say as to whether or not this code change works or not


I'm just point out why mathematically the design screws teams that rely on plays that work and get tired of running a lot of plays that don't. I mean I just figured out how to complete 60% consistently with the can't block an edge rusher code.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By WarEagle
11/23/2016 10:31 pm
If you're calling the same play 10-24 times per game, you need to mix it up some more.

I know I just lost in the championship game, but in the last 16 games the offensive play I have called the most was called only 69 times (4.325 per game). #1 defensive play was called 126 times (7.875/game).



Re: updates for 0.4.1

By setherick
11/23/2016 10:37 pm
WarEagle wrote:
If you're calling the same play 10-24 times per game, you need to mix it up some more.

I know I just lost in the championship game, but in the last 16 games the offensive play I have called the most was called only 69 times (4.325 per game). #1 defensive play was called 126 times (7.875/game).



24 is a high number, but not unrealistic. My game plan is completely open on 1-10, but heavily weighted to specific personnel sets and play types. So any of the plays in my play book could be called, but the odds are heavily in favor of certain plays being called. Since the randomizer likes to call the same play multiple times in a row, it's conceivable that it will call the same play on every first down in a game where I have 24 first downs.

If I had more plays that worked consistently well at specific down and distances OR if I could control where my QB looked first OR if my QB had a better read progression...you know the rest.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By raymattison21
11/24/2016 10:02 am
setherick wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
If you're calling the same play 10-24 times per game, you need to mix it up some more.

I know I just lost in the championship game, but in the last 16 games the offensive play I have called the most was called only 69 times (4.325 per game). #1 defensive play was called 126 times (7.875/game).



24 is a high number, but not unrealistic. My game plan is completely open on 1-10, but heavily weighted to specific personnel sets and play types. So any of the plays in my play book could be called, but the odds are heavily in favor of certain plays being called. Since the randomizer likes to call the same play multiple times in a row, it's conceivable that it will call the same play on every first down in a game where I have 24 first downs.

If I had more plays that worked consistently well at specific down and distances OR if I could control where my QB looked first OR if my QB had a better read progression...you know the rest.


In fives minutes I can make a offensive book that calls plays 2,3, and 4 times most. Defensively it's a bit higher cause the game only selects out of 30 and Its more like 4, 5, and 6 times.

As the defense comes out based in the offense I do see some exploits here but like the increase. This again has so many other variables that I could only say perhaps ONLY skill rating should get an increase or decrease with these measures.

As visually I agree this could look a bit dumb at times, but I am very interest to see the results anyway.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By WarEagle
11/24/2016 11:23 am
I just had a thought.

Let's say I have all 40 of my offensive plays from one personnel group (if that's even possible).

There are pretty good odds the defense will call the same plays pretty often.

So, by doing this (and assuming I am calling a good mix of plays), my plays will start becoming more and more effective as the game goes on because I am seeing the same defensive plays over and over, while running different offensive plays.

It seems like we'll have to do away with most defensive rules and allow the Ai to control more of it to ensure we are calling a good mix of defensive plays for each personnel group.

Does this sound correct to anyone else?
Last edited at 11/24/2016 11:24 am

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By setherick
11/24/2016 11:27 am
I was thinking this too. You would still need a good mix of defensive plays from certain personnel sets.

So, for example, I will probably set up a game play that focuses on the 122, 212, 221, and 311 sets because both of those put the defense into a normal defensive backfield or goal line defense. If my opponent doesn't have enough of those plays, and with goal line defenses it won't be enough, my team will get a large advantage even though I can run a variety of plays out of those sets (and do).

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
11/25/2016 7:07 pm
WarEagle wrote:
I just had a thought.

Let's say I have all 40 of my offensive plays from one personnel group (if that's even possible).

There are pretty good odds the defense will call the same plays pretty often.

So, by doing this (and assuming I am calling a good mix of plays), my plays will start becoming more and more effective as the game goes on because I am seeing the same defensive plays over and over, while running different offensive plays.

It seems like we'll have to do away with most defensive rules and allow the Ai to control more of it to ensure we are calling a good mix of defensive plays for each personnel group.

Does this sound correct to anyone else?


That is an interesting thought. I'd love to see someone try it and see if it works, and if it does maybe think about a good way to help prevent it. I -think- a balanced defensive setup should not tip the scale, but would love to see the results of experimenting.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By Mr.Krazy
11/25/2016 9:11 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
I just had a thought.

Let's say I have all 40 of my offensive plays from one personnel group (if that's even possible).

There are pretty good odds the defense will call the same plays pretty often.

So, by doing this (and assuming I am calling a good mix of plays), my plays will start becoming more and more effective as the game goes on because I am seeing the same defensive plays over and over, while running different offensive plays.

It seems like we'll have to do away with most defensive rules and allow the Ai to control more of it to ensure we are calling a good mix of defensive plays for each personnel group.

Does this sound correct to anyone else?


That is an interesting thought. I'd love to see someone try it and see if it works, and if it does maybe think about a good way to help prevent it. I -think- a balanced defensive setup should not tip the scale, but would love to see the results of experimenting.

Well, this is the league to do it in. I mean, this is the testing league so hopefully someone will start experimenting with this. I would be willing to try it out if nobody else wants to.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By setherick
11/25/2016 9:18 pm
I already have plans to do this, but I need a few hours to think out the game plan (plays, personnel settings, and overrides). I haven't taken the time to do it yet. I haven't figured out if I need to change HCs yet either.
Last edited at 11/25/2016 9:18 pm

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By WarEagle
12/13/2016 7:03 am
jdavidbakr wrote:

I'll post to this thread as I push other logic updates to the engine. The first is an increase in the impact of overusing a play - I had it kind of minimally impacting in 0.4, but people's experience seems to imply that it's not having the impact that I was hoping for. I'm also adding to the play-by-play if overuse of a play caused a negative result for your team.


This does not seem to be working.

I only called 6 different defensive plays in my last game, and 4 of those were called only 1 or 2 times.

I did not see any messages about overuse of a play, or notice any difference in the play results.
Last edited at 12/13/2016 7:03 am