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Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By TheAdmiral
9/18/2020 10:11 am
I think the sacks (or lack of) is linked to the changes to punt blocking. As JDB has said, the Punt play is not an isolated play, so any changes made there and and will impact the game elsewhere.

In my opinion (perception), the edge rushers in a punt block scenario are trying to run/dive across the Punter in an effort to block the punt. Whereas on every other play the primary goal is generally to tackle / hit the QB.

One of the reasons PB's were so high was because those edge rushers would 'tackle' the Punter (without ever being yellow flagged) as the game logic dictated that was what they should be doing on every other play.

Now it seems the edge rushers are playing the PB correctly and not 'tackling' the Punter but this translates to trying to run across the QB rather than tackle him for the sack. Thus negating the role of a DE and causing the majority of sacks to be 'coverage' sacks where the QB holds the ball too long looking for a receiver to get open.

Another symptom of this is the amount of times a rusher makes contact with the QB but he bounces off and makes a play anyway (in a Russell Wilson manner). Is this because the AI logic is telling the rushers not to tackle the primary target?


I'll have a mooch around later and try and bring up some in-game examples.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By raymattison21
9/18/2020 11:15 am
You can tackle the punter if he doesn’t kick it. If he kicks it you can’t touch him unless the ball is touched first.

Sacks and hurries were better only a few games ago ( how or why they happen is not the best). This version has sacks way too low for a release. I will go as far as agreeing with Seth and infinity on the “sack clock” thing.

Though other changes will or possibly will have a similar end game in terms of numbers . I have been glitching sacks since 4.4. Combing Fast QBs , short passes, “money plays” or “auto reads” (possibly related to the sack clock) , and fast wrs will result in less than 10 sacks a season.

This stuff went away ( or was lower) when zone was tweaked but once again this is all theoretical . This version of 4. 6 is like 4.5 with everything exasperated. Except punt blocks and that 46 heavy nonsense

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By setherick
9/19/2020 12:34 pm
TheAdmiral wrote:
I think the sacks (or lack of) is linked to the changes to punt blocking. As JDB has said, the Punt play is not an isolated play, so any changes made there and and will impact the game elsewhere.


No. No. No. No. No. And more no.

The lack of sacks are all about the QB recognizing the blitz each time, every time, on short and medium passes.

The only thing the punt protection would have "fixed" for pass blocking is the bad RG interaction where the RG dropped back and out and left a giant hole for the LDE in the 46 heavy or DT2 in the dime to charge through.

I mean I can post the actual data to show that there are 0 pressures from LBs or CBs most of the blitz plays.
Last edited at 9/19/2020 12:35 pm

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By TheAdmiral
9/19/2020 12:44 pm
setherick wrote:
TheAdmiral wrote:
I think the sacks (or lack of) is linked to the changes to punt blocking. As JDB has said, the Punt play is not an isolated play, so any changes made there and and will impact the game elsewhere.


No. No. No. No. No. And more no.

The lack of sacks are all about the QB recognizing the blitz each time, every time, on short and medium passes.

The only thing the punt protection would have "fixed" for pass blocking is the bad RG interaction where the RG dropped back and out and left a giant hole for the LDE in the 46 heavy or DT2 in the dime to charge through.

I mean I can post the actual data to show that there are 0 pressures from LBs or CBs most of the blitz plays.


Has this happened following the changes to blocking? is it coincidental? ie before the changes were we getting pressure/hits/sacks from LBs/DBs could the two be linked?

and yes please, I'd love to see the data :o)

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By Infinity on Trial
9/19/2020 6:43 pm
It's a feature of the Ray-inspired passing "improvement" that became 4.5.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By raymattison21
9/19/2020 6:56 pm
Do you mean this season 2036? My favorite stats were the 4 picks and 6 sacks a game and it was done using 6 total plays combined on both sides


Pass Attempts/Game 57.7
Pass Completions/Game 27.6
Completion Pct 47.8
Passing Yards/Game 711.1
Yards/Attempt 12.3
Passing TDs/Game 8.1
Rushes/Game 12.8
Rush Yards/Game 43.1
Yds/Carry 3.4
Rushing TDs/Game 0.3
Interceptions/Game 4.3
Yards/INT 6.2
Sacks/Game 6.2
Yards From Scrimmage/Game 754.2
Turnovers/Game 3.6
Turnover Margin 23.0
Penalties/Game 4.3
Penalty Yds/Game 31.7

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By setherick
9/19/2020 8:26 pm
TheAdmiral wrote:
setherick wrote:
TheAdmiral wrote:
I think the sacks (or lack of) is linked to the changes to punt blocking. As JDB has said, the Punt play is not an isolated play, so any changes made there and and will impact the game elsewhere.


No. No. No. No. No. And more no.

The lack of sacks are all about the QB recognizing the blitz each time, every time, on short and medium passes.

The only thing the punt protection would have "fixed" for pass blocking is the bad RG interaction where the RG dropped back and out and left a giant hole for the LDE in the 46 heavy or DT2 in the dime to charge through.

I mean I can post the actual data to show that there are 0 pressures from LBs or CBs most of the blitz plays.


Has this happened following the changes to blocking? is it coincidental? ie before the changes were we getting pressure/hits/sacks from LBs/DBs could the two be linked?

and yes please, I'd love to see the data :o)


It happens CURRENTLY in 0.4.5. That's the only version that I track stats in.

(I'll post data tomorrow night. I have to rebuild all of my agg tables after a bug in one of my stored procedures. And I have better things to do tonight.)

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By raymattison21
9/20/2020 6:17 am
setherick wrote:
TheAdmiral wrote:
setherick wrote:
TheAdmiral wrote:
I think the sacks (or lack of) is linked to the changes to punt blocking. As JDB has said, the Punt play is not an isolated play, so any changes made there and and will impact the game elsewhere.


No. No. No. No. No. And more no.

The lack of sacks are all about the QB recognizing the blitz each time, every time, on short and medium passes.

The only thing the punt protection would have "fixed" for pass blocking is the bad RG interaction where the RG dropped back and out and left a giant hole for the LDE in the 46 heavy or DT2 in the dime to charge through.

I mean I can post the actual data to show that there are 0 pressures from LBs or CBs most of the blitz plays.


Has this happened following the changes to blocking? is it coincidental? ie before the changes were we getting pressure/hits/sacks from LBs/DBs could the two be linked?

and yes please, I'd love to see the data :o)


It happens CURRENTLY in 0.4.5. That's the only version that I track stats in.

(I'll post data tomorrow night. I have to rebuild all of my agg tables after a bug in one of my stored procedures. And I have better things to do tonight.)



I think we know what the stats will be. You do get some here and there. Changing this clock is only the tip of the ice berg. Jdb has stats for snap to time to throw

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By setherick
9/20/2020 7:09 am
This is wrong. There are very few plays that produce any pressure from the LB position, and most of those are producing pressure with overrides.

Like the GL Attack. The only way the LB gets pressure is when you swap in your 95 SP DB, and then the position becomes a menace. Same thing with the Dime MLB SS blitz.

Your classic blitzes like the 4-3 Double LB blitz don't provide any pressure from the LB spot because:

1) The blitzes are too slow
2) The blitzes are not "hidden" (There is only one roll to determine if the QB is going to see the blitz, which he wins all the time)
3) The QB is getting rid of the ball as soon as the LB hits the LOS

The sensitivity of the clock doesn't just affect pressure for what it's worth. It's also the real reason why there are not more downfield throws (which receivers are only going to drop anyway). The QB doesn't hold the ball long enough for these routes to develop.

Also, I would hope JDB has stats for all of this. I collect data for game planning purposes. I'm not developing the code.
Last edited at 9/20/2020 7:12 am

Re: [0.4.6] Version 09d60821

By Smirt211
9/20/2020 7:43 am
4-3 Double LB blitz

We have to hit the way back machine to post mortem v4.2.

Those whom weren't here wouldn't know the game. Those whom have been know the deal.

You displayed the technical wiring behind why it doesn't work or the twin CB #3/LB Bitzes (you know which ones). Non-technical. An end was put to them and one's ability to sit in run key while pass blitzing to cover and scorch earth every single offensive play with its streaming.

Still today it still holds to where they are not usable through over-used penalties (you get zapped on them) or ineffectiveness to promote users not using them.

Is that pretty much the case?