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Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
12/12/2020 7:55 am
https://lol.myfootballnow.com/watch/2246#394615

This is a prevent play with a 50 speed cb getting beat deep by a 75 speed wr. Again the cb stops or plays the ball? The 55 speed lb in the flats has better position. The QBs passer rating vs zone is higher than vs. a man under in every version since 4.4

Zone has holes for sure ..... That just aren’t there in the shelved 4.6 version. That version had lower drops as well. Coverage was looser and ints, drops , and knockdowns were less. And qb accuracy wasn’t as important as the new 4.6 or 4.5 . Reads weren’t the best and DBs were jumping route routes still. This play though does show it doesn’t matter zone or man DBs still stop for seemingly no reason. The same problem versions ago.

Now smaller dline are capped compared to 4.5s 100 sacks by the LDE and those ridiculous punt blocks are gone. That’s enough for me to prefer this version over 4.5. I would like to see a smaller team get pushed around in the new 4.6 .

It would be neat to be able to lock in a players weight just to see if a 330 pound RT would help the run game but the 250 pound DE might still win out too often.

I am all for DBs not falling down or jumping routes so bad so often ......and lowering the deep ball drops but even with the latter added to the old 4.6 it wasn’t enough.

If this CB stayed deep enough right from the snap he would not get beat. Same with man...they are always in trail technique. I would like a little variety there. They press, they change alignment due to keys, but they all wait for the wr to come to them ....then move.

But the LBers in those flats get back quickly right from the snap. It’s hurts their effectiveness vs the run but they are almost DBs by then in terms of how deep they get.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By setherick
12/12/2020 7:59 am
Yes, Ray, you are absolutely correct. People in veteran leagues running nothing but M2M defense with strong B&R DBs because of how we've had to adjust to the garbage exploits of 4.5 will absolutely love watching our passing disappear and no team scoring more than 10 points per game.

I bet my USFL team would allow < 32 points FOR A YEAR in the current beta code.

In fact, if it were not for 2 broken plays in the LC, my awful MFN-1 team would have only given up 16 to one of the strongest running teams in league.

I see nothing wrong with this. If you want the remaining veterans to quit...

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By TheAdmiral
12/12/2020 8:12 am
No updates since September? :o(

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
12/12/2020 9:16 am
setherick wrote:
Yes, Ray, you are absolutely correct. People in veteran leagues running nothing but M2M defense with strong B&R DBs because of how we've had to adjust to the garbage exploits of 4.5 will absolutely love watching our passing disappear and no team scoring more than 10 points per game.

I bet my USFL team would allow < 32 points FOR A YEAR in the current beta code.

In fact, if it were not for 2 broken plays in the LC, my awful MFN-1 team would have only given up 16 to one of the strongest running teams in league.

I see nothing wrong with this. If you want the remaining veterans to quit...


A strict man scheme for the outside CBS(2 who look great)...fast yet under(default) rated D lineman, near elite speed LBers, 46 plays called, and that LBer flats play....

Sounds great but wouldn’t 4.5 be favoring the defenders as well..... as long as they have speed. 4.5 had Alot leave due to the lack of offense.

Even watching the top defense teams meet in n the super bowl , for 4.5 , stats drop.....I have yet to see this trend in 4.6 .

One game in and you see passing is hampered but small changes here and there will see a complete game with more offense. The old 4.6 had too good of a defense too...so he upped the offensive numbers. It would’ve been a nice addition to any code due to the holes in zone. Coverage was s still broke but more balanced in terms of effectiveness.

Getting wrs and QBs through their routes/ progressions quicker would help all those codes. But slow defenders still don’t get deep enough and all stop or make a play on the ball at the wrong times allowing for huge yards after the catch. The defense has to be better a Coverage (bump or man) to make up for those facts.

When getting open should be easier and the recovery should be too. Or they should not get open as far as they do when they finally get open.

This window of speed exploited in 4.5 is here in 4.6 but I bet you will need even faster players to accomplish it.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Smirt211
12/12/2020 9:24 am
Lord have mercy. I didn't read it yet but the problem is to a simplified form: Dime Prevent, no pass key, a quick out play is a bang-bang play to go underneath it.

Bad defensive play got laced up.

...and yeah I know it got beat over the top but it's due to a) scrub CB and b) bad defensive call ^ with no pass key protection.
Last edited at 12/12/2020 9:26 am

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
12/12/2020 9:31 am
Look at the 86 speed 97 zone SS run the wrong way at the time of the throw. Right Skills right play call wrong result. At least be a jump ball not a long td

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By setherick
12/12/2020 10:07 am
raymattison21 wrote:
setherick wrote:
Yes, Ray, you are absolutely correct. People in veteran leagues running nothing but M2M defense with strong B&R DBs because of how we've had to adjust to the garbage exploits of 4.5 will absolutely love watching our passing disappear and no team scoring more than 10 points per game.

I bet my USFL team would allow < 32 points FOR A YEAR in the current beta code.

In fact, if it were not for 2 broken plays in the LC, my awful MFN-1 team would have only given up 16 to one of the strongest running teams in league.

I see nothing wrong with this. If you want the remaining veterans to quit...


A strict man scheme for the outside CBS(2 who look great)...fast yet under(default) rated D lineman, near elite speed LBers, 46 plays called, and that LBer flats play....

Sounds great but wouldn’t 4.5 be favoring the defenders as well..... as long as they have speed. 4.5 had Alot leave due to the lack of offense.

Even watching the top defense teams meet in n the super bowl , for 4.5 , stats drop.....I have yet to see this trend in 4.6 .

One game in and you see passing is hampered but small changes here and there will see a complete game with more offense. The old 4.6 had too good of a defense too...so he upped the offensive numbers. It would’ve been a nice addition to any code due to the holes in zone. Coverage was s still broke but more balanced in terms of effectiveness.

Getting wrs and QBs through their routes/ progressions quicker would help all those codes. But slow defenders still don’t get deep enough and all stop or make a play on the ball at the wrong times allowing for huge yards after the catch. The defense has to be better a Coverage (bump or man) to make up for those facts.

When getting open should be easier and the recovery should be too. Or they should not get open as far as they do when they finally get open.

This window of speed exploited in 4.5 is here in 4.6 but I bet you will need even faster players to accomplish it.


You're right that the only scoring in 4.5 results from broken, exploit plays.

That's part of the problem that 4.6 was going to solve by opening up the passing game downfield. Instead ... YPA is at 1930-1940s level.

And slow players are SLOW players period. They shouldn't be on the field.

The problem with SP is that player generation continues to be a mess. RBs should never be < 70 SP. WRs and DBs should never be < 80 SP. DEs should never be > 80 SP and rarely > 70 SP. LBs should never be < 60 SP.

Most of these things are reversed. It's the reason why it's more common to convert late round DEs to LBs for depth than draft actual DBs. It's the reason why any player > 90 SP and no skill makes a roster before technically sound players.

Collapsing the difference between SP just made all of the problems with how technical skill is used in the game much more apparent.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By raymattison21
12/12/2020 12:43 pm
setherick wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
setherick wrote:
Yes, Ray, you are absolutely correct. People in veteran leagues running nothing but M2M defense with strong B&R DBs because of how we've had to adjust to the garbage exploits of 4.5 will absolutely love watching our passing disappear and no team scoring more than 10 points per game.

I bet my USFL team would allow < 32 points FOR A YEAR in the current beta code.

In fact, if it were not for 2 broken plays in the LC, my awful MFN-1 team would have only given up 16 to one of the strongest running teams in league.

I see nothing wrong with this. If you want the remaining veterans to quit...


A strict man scheme for the outside CBS(2 who look great)...fast yet under(default) rated D lineman, near elite speed LBers, 46 plays called, and that LBer flats play....

Sounds great but wouldn’t 4.5 be favoring the defenders as well..... as long as they have speed. 4.5 had Alot leave due to the lack of offense.

Even watching the top defense teams meet in n the super bowl , for 4.5 , stats drop.....I have yet to see this trend in 4.6 .

One game in and you see passing is hampered but small changes here and there will see a complete game with more offense. The old 4.6 had too good of a defense too...so he upped the offensive numbers. It would’ve been a nice addition to any code due to the holes in zone. Coverage was s still broke but more balanced in terms of effectiveness.

Getting wrs and QBs through their routes/ progressions quicker would help all those codes. But slow defenders still don’t get deep enough and all stop or make a play on the ball at the wrong times allowing for huge yards after the catch. The defense has to be better a Coverage (bump or man) to make up for those facts.

When getting open should be easier and the recovery should be too. Or they should not get open as far as they do when they finally get open.

This window of speed exploited in 4.5 is here in 4.6 but I bet you will need even faster players to accomplish it.


You're right that the only scoring in 4.5 results from broken, exploit plays.

That's part of the problem that 4.6 was going to solve by opening up the passing game downfield. Instead ... YPA is at 1930-1940s level.

And slow players are SLOW players period. They shouldn't be on the field.

The problem with SP is that player generation continues to be a mess. RBs should never be < 70 SP. WRs and DBs should never be < 80 SP. DEs should never be > 80 SP and rarely > 70 SP. LBs should never be < 60 SP.

Most of these things are reversed. It's the reason why it's more common to convert late round DEs to LBs for depth than draft actual DBs. It's the reason why any player > 90 SP and no skill makes a roster before technically sound players.

Collapsing the difference between SP just made all of the problems with how technical skill is used in the game much more apparent.


Having athletic minimums is what we do when we build a team. I don’t know if that’s a fix but What would lowering athletic abilities do ?

The clock would be too fast but the skills should matter more in that scenario. We do have more athletic talent in drafts. Seasoned leagues have plenty of skill due to volatility boosts after many drafts.

I would think if more speed was available the skills matter less. Like I said I would like to lock in players weight, or set it just to expand that speed scale.

Either way the gaps in speed due to weight is perhaps a deeper but related problem.

DBs with a max of 80 speed and DEs with a similar max would be a true fix. With nobody below 50 speed. Something like that would help aligning 3 cone And 40 times.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By setherick
11/05/2021 7:51 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
We are right at the nfl average for fumbles and FFs.


This is a joke, right?

A quick review of several seasons of NFL stats indicates MFN QBs should fumble more and everyone else a lot less. But that's not even the point. My proposal is that the fumble rate should align with a player's avoid fumble rating.

Baltimore's Lewis Lynch led MFN with 9 fumbles this season in just 84 touches. That actually seems reasonable considering he has an avoid fumble rating of 13.

But Atlanta's Gregory Ward had 8 fumbles on just 87 touches with an avoid rating of 100.



I see IoT pointed out the fumble problem, but his comments were ignored.

Re: [0.4.6] Version 0d5f5ac

By Infinity on Trial
11/05/2021 8:01 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
Also, as others have pointed out, fumbles remain screwy (possibly because fatigue plays too much of a factor). I feel like fumbles should be a result of avoid vs strip and nothing else. Someone with 90+ avoid should almost never fumble. I've had guys with 100 avoid drop the ball three times in one game.


From earlier in the thread