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Re: updates for 0.4.1

By lellow2011
1/04/2017 10:16 pm
WarEagle wrote:
I agree with everything Ares said, especially these parts:

Ares wrote:
1) Blitzes are insanely effective against both the run and pass and there is no current counter to them like there is in real life...

...We can't stop blitzes and we're at a competitive disadvantage if we don't similarly restrict our playbooks.


To me, this is the only thing that has really made me consider seriously leaving MFN. I hate playing games against the people who are using this strategy just as much as I hated playing games against good ole Stealbom (who would basically run a FB dive every play to ensure he always had the #1 pick).

It's a crappy way to play the game, but as long as it is so effective and nearly unbeatable without "fighting fire with fire", there are always going to be plenty of users doing it.

I would love for there to be another solution to address this problem, but until there is I am very happy to have significant penalties applied in-game when someone decides to use this strategy.

It would be fine with me if after a certain number of these blitzes the defense just took a knee every time it was called again. Maybe it would be better to just have the Ai remove those plays as an option once they have been used a certain amount of times.

The bottom line (for me) is that this game just isn't any fun when you face teams like this knowing there is really nothing you can do about it (especially in regular leagues that have the bad OL blocking / QB Play / QB Pressure penalties).






Literally the only counter I have found of any sort is to have a QB with very high scrambling and speed (and that's pretty rare to find with good passing skills) and run most of my passes out of the I formation. Even then against some that does it well I'm hoping to hit on some long passes and knowing I'm going to take some sacks regardless. I actually have a perfect example from MFN32 of how it turns out when you fight fire with fire.

https://mfn32.myfootballnow.com/box/view/2662 - Perfect example of what the sim devolves into right now when two teams run the blitz every down defensive playbook and both owners know what's coming....

throwing short was pointless because QBs still hold the ball, running was pointless....
so it turned into throw it deep every down and hope you don't get sacked.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By setherick
1/04/2017 10:19 pm
I hate those BS throw every pass long because it's the only way to move the ball offenses. I hate them as much as I hate the fact that in all of the other leagues except for 1 my short passing offense DOES NOT WORK because my QB is under pressure .5 seconds after the snap and JDB did nothing to mitigate this once he realized how badly broken pass blocking was.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By WarEagle
1/05/2017 10:23 am
Has anything changed recently in regards to the overuse notifications / penalties?

In my last game, the play I called the most was Nickel 3-3-5 Cover 2 Man Under. I called this play 9 times.

On NONE of those plays was a message displayed about me calling it too often.

I also did not have any less success with this play.

Here are the results.
1 - run for 11 yds
2 - incomplete pass
3 - incomplete pass
4 - run for "short gain"
5 - INTERCEPTION
6 - incomplete pass
7 - pass for 3 yds
8 - incomplete pass
9 - incomplete pass

Overall 9 times for an average of 1.6 yds per play, with only 2 of those plays going for positive yardage.

Am I missing something?

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
1/05/2017 10:27 am
WarEagle wrote:
Has anything changed recently in regards to the overuse notifications / penalties?

In my last game, the play I called the most was Nickel 3-3-5 Cover 2 Man Under. I called this play 9 times.

On NONE of those plays was a message displayed about me calling it too often.

I also did not have any less success with this play.

Here are the results.
1 - run for 11 yds
2 - incomplete pass
3 - incomplete pass
4 - run for "short gain"
5 - INTERCEPTION
6 - incomplete pass
7 - pass for 3 yds
8 - incomplete pass
9 - incomplete pass

Overall 9 times for an average of 1.6 yds per play, with only 2 of those plays going for positive yardage.

Am I missing something?


The penalty didn't change, more likely the penalty didn't have a significant enough impact (the boost to the opponent didn't improve them enough to prevent the incomplete passes). Perhaps the penalty prevented additional interceptions or sacks.

The notice only appears when the outcome of the play is negative for the team who is overusing the play. I had turned that filter off but only for the two games that I was checking that the penalty was being applied at all.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By setherick
1/07/2017 6:29 am
This game is the best argument yet for reverting run blocking to its previous code state: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/box/view/5861

It also does a good job of showing how bad tackling is and how powerful break tackling is.

Actually, I have a serious question. Was run blocking so bad in the past, like pass blocking bad, that offensive players had to have their break tackle and ball carry (think 135 degree instant jump cuts) turned up so high to compensate?

I'm trying to determine what is the real problem with run blocking, tackling, and running back production. I'm wondering if run blocking is actually working correctly now but fast RBs are so overpowered because they had to be overpowered to compensate in the past. If they are overpowered because they had to compensate, the problem could be with the running backs.

Can we try leaving run blocking alone and turning down the ability to break tackles for a few games to see what happens?
Last edited at 1/07/2017 6:36 am

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By setherick
1/07/2017 7:41 am
But, wait, there's more. On this play watch the battle between the center and defensive tackle on this play. The DT is driving west on the C, pushing him back toward the running back. As soon as the RB gets to the LOS, somehow the C and the DT swap places so now the DT has to drive the C east to try and catch the RB: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/5861#1054796

I saw multiple of these types of blocks throughout the game. It looks like it happens every play, including passing plays where the pass is completed downfield and the DL turns to pursue. This is completely preventing the DL from being able to actively pursue the ball carrier. This must be fixed. Preferably by the next sim.
Last edited at 1/07/2017 7:43 am

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By Tecra031
1/07/2017 8:44 am
So I have some thoughts on the play familiarity situation.

If we have no control of in-game adjustments (which is fine with me since we don't play live), the penalties for repeated play calling should be turned down or changed. I have a good mix of plays going into every game on O and D (40 on O and 30 on D), but have limited control of how often any particular play is being called. One would think that an O or D Coordinator would change up plays if the opposing team keeps beating them, yet our teams just keep calling them repeatedly.

I think HCs,OCs and DCs should have a Play Calling or Intelligence rating which affects their play calling ability and use of selected plays. No team would keep calling the same play over and over again if they are getting beat, they would change it up rather quickly.

In addition, perhaps the the number of selected plays could be increased to 50 on offense and 40 on defense, giving teams more plays/options to select from in the play book.

It is frustrating to see that familiarity prompt come up 3 or 4 times in a row on a series.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By raymattison21
1/07/2017 10:56 am
setherick wrote:
This game is the best argument yet for reverting run blocking to its previous code state: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/box/view/5861

It also does a good job of showing how bad tackling is and how powerful break tackling is.

Actually, I have a serious question. Was run blocking so bad in the past, like pass blocking bad, that offensive players had to have their break tackle and ball carry (think 135 degree instant jump cuts) turned up so high to compensate?

I'm trying to determine what is the real problem with run blocking, tackling, and running back production. I'm wondering if run blocking is actually working correctly now but fast RBs are so overpowered because they had to be overpowered to compensate in the past. If they are overpowered because they had to compensate, the problem could be with the running backs.

Can we try leaving run blocking alone and turning down the ability to break tackles for a few games to see what happens?


My experience is backs have been nerfed more and more. Except that first season....tackle distribution was different, but nobody got yards. I mean no body.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By raymattison21
1/07/2017 11:04 am
Tecra031 wrote:
So I have some thoughts on the play familiarity situation.

If we have no control of in-game adjustments (which is fine with me since we don't play live), the penalties for repeated play calling should be turned down or changed. I have a good mix of plays going into every game on O and D (40 on O and 30 on D), but have limited control of how often any particular play is being called. One would think that an O or D Coordinator would change up plays if the opposing team keeps beating them, yet our teams just keep calling them repeatedly.



I think HCs,OCs and DCs should have a Play Calling or Intelligence rating which affects their play calling ability and use of selected plays. No team would keep calling the same play over and over again if they are getting beat, they would change it up rather quickly.

In addition, perhaps the the number of selected plays could be increased to 50 on offense and 40 on defense, giving teams more plays/options to select from in the play book.

It is frustrating to see that familiarity prompt come up 3 or 4 times in a row on a series.



You set that in your matrix.....besides the rng, but under this play abuse code play count is important. Every game I have won the play count for most sets. I think I should be awarded for this plan Still, every team has put me in that penalty at least once , Defensively , every game.

I am down with up to 50 plays for both offense and defense, as a part time solution . ..I like my coaches calls...even the bad one....but I was thinking of this same element of the AI stepping in, but dictated by the head coach.

This code looks a bit like a snowball as for how long it takes for points to really get rolling. In play abuse games. Where late it's like touch and td.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By raymattison21
1/07/2017 11:06 am
setherick wrote:
But, wait, there's more. On this play watch the battle between the center and defensive tackle on this play. The DT is driving west on the C, pushing him back toward the running back. As soon as the RB gets to the LOS, somehow the C and the DT swap places so now the DT has to drive the C east to try and catch the RB: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/5861#1054796

I saw multiple of these types of blocks throughout the game. It looks like it happens every play, including passing plays where the pass is completed downfield and the DL turns to pursue. This is completely preventing the DL from being able to actively pursue the ball carrier. This must be fixed. Preferably by the next sim.


This is the only reason I said turn down blocking, but my ends are nerfed in the run game right now.