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Re: updates for 0.4.1

By Mr.Krazy
1/03/2017 7:54 pm
Speaking of play overuse.... the bonus an offense or defense should get if the opposing team overuses a play does not work at all.

Look at the defensive plays used by Washington in the first half of the game (By the way, I respect you trslick for risking your team's performance and season by testing the play abuse theorem) https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/log/5834

My offense struggles constantly and could not for the life of itself find a way to succeed against the few defensive plays chosen. This is very frustrating to watch. No wonder why I have been losing a lot of my games recently.

Play overusage needs to be looked at again and boosted up. I'm tired of seeing my offense or defense give up plays because they are dumb enough to not recognize the plays they are going against.

This is one of the few exploits in this game that is starting to make me consider leaving, and I don't really want to.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By WarEagle
1/03/2017 9:17 pm
setherick wrote:
Noticed this while watching Ray and WarEagle's game. The bonus that offenses get for play overuse should NOT affect speed, acceleration, and other physical attributes: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/gamecenter/view/5836#1050145

WR 83 SP, 92 AC, 100 Carry
vs
CB 100 SP, 100 AC

WR sprints away like CB is wearing cement shoes.


This was my CB, and I was glad to see it. If I don't want this to happen, I should make sure to have more variety in my playcalling.

I'm glad the penalty is severe enough to mean a near certain defeat for teams that overuse plays. I was actually more pleased watching this game than any of my victories this season because it made me feel like JDB was moving in the right direction regarding this issue.
Last edited at 1/03/2017 9:17 pm

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By setherick
1/03/2017 9:23 pm
I don't mind seeing WRs make the catch, but why teams get a bonus to physical attributes, ever?

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By WarEagle
1/03/2017 9:50 pm
setherick wrote:
I don't mind seeing WRs make the catch, but why teams get a bonus to physical attributes, ever?


If that's what it takes to get people to quit the type of playcalling on defense that has been so prevalent lately, I'm all for it.

For this play, I didn't see it as a boost to the offense, but a penalty against the defense.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By setherick
1/03/2017 9:51 pm
WarEagle wrote:
setherick wrote:
I don't mind seeing WRs make the catch, but why teams get a bonus to physical attributes, ever?


If that's what it takes to get people to quit the type of playcalling on defense that has been so prevalent lately, I'm all for it.

For this play, I didn't see it as a boost to the offense, but a penalty against the defense.


I see it as just another hidden attribute that messes with how fast/slow/good a player is. Scouting players is hard enough without having to ask is my 100 SP, 100 AC player good enough to catch that guy?

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By raymattison21
1/03/2017 11:53 pm
setherick wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
setherick wrote:
I don't mind seeing WRs make the catch, but why teams get a bonus to physical attributes, ever?


If that's what it takes to get people to quit the type of playcalling on defense that has been so prevalent lately, I'm all for it.

For this play, I didn't see it as a boost to the offense, but a penalty against the defense.


I see it as just another hidden attribute that messes with how fast/slow/good a player is. Scouting players is hard enough without having to ask is my 100 SP, 100 AC player good enough to catch that guy?


Thats why I hate this ...visually this solution is worse....in that speed thing, but it not that the wr got faster the ....it the CB got slower....

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By Black Adder
1/04/2017 2:34 pm
JDB,

Just wanted to add my 50p`s worth.

I support the penalty against abuse of same play after same play,but I think looking into the future of MFN,I`m not certain its a good thing.

What would Bill Belichick think when he looks to game plan?

They have a great WR#1,so I`m going to take him out of the offence by double teaming him often.

If I get a good lead I`m going go the 4 deep Zone coverages all through the 4th Quarter.

In the current version these things are what NOT to do.

How can that be right for a game that is trying to be a realistic NFL simulation?

You need to be able to call the correct football plays without being penalized, else people will just quit the game.

Not sure what the answer is.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
1/04/2017 3:54 pm
Some of those things I feel can be solved by having some additional game planning tools (i.e. the ability to lock your star CB to their star WR or double-team your opponent's WR as an override whenever your safety is in a deep zone in certain situations). Part of the problem is that there is no way to do in-game adjustments. I haven't come up with a strategy that gives you that ability without making it so cumbersome it wouldn't be worth it.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By Ares
1/04/2017 7:41 pm
For what little it's worth as a non-MFN1er who occasionally pops in to see what's cooking, I'd like to second Black Adder. There are teams in the NFL that have historically called very vanilla game plans, most especially on defense, with success. The Bears D under Lovie was notoriously simple but effective, running the same basic shell with very few twists. I don't really think the primary issue here is play overuse. The issue is twofold: 1) Blitzes are insanely effective against both the run and pass and there is no current counter to them like there is in real life. 2) Lack of effective play variety.

It's one thing to rely heavily on certain base plays, it's another to feel like you have to rely on certain base plays. I think that's the key to everyone's frustration. We can't stop blitzes and we're at a competitive disadvantage if we don't similarly restrict our playbooks. The answer to both (in my opinion) isn't to just artificially penalize teams in an unrealistic fashion (eg slowing players down? is that really happening? please tell me that play was just the result of fatigue or something crazy), but instead to give users more (and better) tools that promote diversity.

I hope that whatever the 'fix' that got pushed through here in MFN1 for the zone coverage algorithm will help, because if zone defense suddenly became viable that would effectively double everyone's playbooks right there. The other fix that I (and many others) would love to see would be screens, more play-action plays, improved 'hot' route logic/execution, draws being made to work, etc., as a means to non-artificially penalize over blitzing.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By WarEagle
1/04/2017 9:52 pm
I agree with everything Ares said, especially these parts:

Ares wrote:
1) Blitzes are insanely effective against both the run and pass and there is no current counter to them like there is in real life...

...We can't stop blitzes and we're at a competitive disadvantage if we don't similarly restrict our playbooks.


To me, this is the only thing that has really made me consider seriously leaving MFN. I hate playing games against the people who are using this strategy just as much as I hated playing games against good ole Stealbom (who would basically run a FB dive every play to ensure he always had the #1 pick).

It's a crappy way to play the game, but as long as it is so effective and nearly unbeatable without "fighting fire with fire", there are always going to be plenty of users doing it.

I would love for there to be another solution to address this problem, but until there is I am very happy to have significant penalties applied in-game when someone decides to use this strategy.

It would be fine with me if after a certain number of these blitzes the defense just took a knee every time it was called again. Maybe it would be better to just have the Ai remove those plays as an option once they have been used a certain amount of times.

The bottom line (for me) is that this game just isn't any fun when you face teams like this knowing there is really nothing you can do about it (especially in regular leagues that have the bad OL blocking / QB Play / QB Pressure penalties).