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Main - Beta Chat

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By Ares
1/17/2017 4:54 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
I'll post to this thread as I push other logic updates to the engine. The first is an increase in the impact of overusing a play - I had it kind of minimally impacting in 0.4, but people's experience seems to imply that it's not having the impact that I was hoping for. I'm also adding to the play-by-play if overuse of a play caused a negative result for your team.


I really like Smirt211's suggestion in the main forums of allowing users to use as many of their play scouting tokens as they want on any given play per week. So if a team is only really using the infamous set of blitzes, you could use five on each, effectively giving your squad a x5 bonus over the current system, in which you'd 1x scout both of those, and then waste the rest of your 8 scoutings on plays they won't run. This is something that's not only /not/ artificial in nerfing play overuse, but it's a band-aid that could stick even after the blitz overuse has been resolved in a more permanent fashion.

Edit: I would also maybe even suggest upping it the scouted plays per week to 15. This gives coaches some interesting decisions to make in game planning. Do you just try to beat their whole game plan, or maybe you really focus your team on trying to take away just one element, like their deep ball, but pretty much let them have anything they want underneath. Anyhow, I like this idea as both a short and long term 'fix' is what I'm saying.
Last edited at 1/17/2017 4:57 pm

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By setherick
1/17/2017 5:26 pm
I like this suggestion only because it would allow me to gain 100% play familiarity with the game breakers - 113 HB Counter, 113 HB Counter Weak, 221 Lead Toss Weak, 014 Slot Cross, etc.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By CCSAHARA
1/17/2017 6:36 pm
I guess I still don’t see why if a team as a full playbook and the “coaches” call the same play to many times while not using some of the other plays at all, why you get penalized for it. In the recent game against New Orleans New York was called for it several times but don’t recall seeing it once for NO at all. I assume many people play this game and just use default game planning. Would seem that would be skewering the results of games in a major way.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By Tecra031
1/18/2017 12:08 am
With the regular season almost completed for the 2030 season, I just wanted to give my thoughts. While I understand this is the beta league and the testing that goes on, I have not enjoyed the changes for the 2030 season as a whole. There have been too many, too quickly, and too many tweaks IMO.

Scores are lopsided and game planning is almost pointless since teams start getting play overuse penalties in the 2nd quarter of most games. Running is OP and has gotten worse, not better, from previous versions. There are 26 1000-yd rushers after 13 weeks and another 7 within 100 yards with 3 games left, there were only 16 for all of last season through 16 games. The idea of 33-35 RBs possibly having 1000 yard seasons is ridiculous, 26 is already was too much. I also think passing is actually worse. I see busted coverages a lot more frequently and WRs behind the secondary constantly.

I know some people love the endless tweaking and have the time to do it, but I am not one of those people. The changes this season have eliminated some of the pure fun and enjoyment of the game that was there previously and have over-complicated it IMO. I would much prefer a roll-back to the 2029 version and then tweak slowly. The game used to be tweaked slowly, giving time for adjustment, but many demanding owners have shifted that into overdrive.

Everyone seems to want a little something different out of this game. I am not calling anyone out for anything, just stating my personal opinion on the state of the game. I enjoyed 2029 and earlier versions significantly more.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By lellow2011
1/18/2017 10:20 am
Tecra031 wrote:
With the regular season almost completed for the 2030 season, I just wanted to give my thoughts. While I understand this is the beta league and the testing that goes on, I have not enjoyed the changes for the 2030 season as a whole. There have been too many, too quickly, and too many tweaks IMO.

Scores are lopsided and game planning is almost pointless since teams start getting play overuse penalties in the 2nd quarter of most games. Running is OP and has gotten worse, not better, from previous versions. There are 26 1000-yd rushers after 13 weeks and another 7 within 100 yards with 3 games left, there were only 16 for all of last season through 16 games. The idea of 33-35 RBs possibly having 1000 yard seasons is ridiculous, 26 is already was too much. I also think passing is actually worse. I see busted coverages a lot more frequently and WRs behind the secondary constantly.

I know some people love the endless tweaking and have the time to do it, but I am not one of those people. The changes this season have eliminated some of the pure fun and enjoyment of the game that was there previously and have over-complicated it IMO. I would much prefer a roll-back to the 2029 version and then tweak slowly. The game used to be tweaked slowly, giving time for adjustment, but many demanding owners have shifted that into overdrive.

Everyone seems to want a little something different out of this game. I am not calling anyone out for anything, just stating my personal opinion on the state of the game. I enjoyed 2029 and earlier versions significantly more.


Yeah it's been kind of crazy with stuff being tweaked so often, I also have not enjoyed watching my DE (100 in everything except strip ball for current ratings) become completely neutered by the current version of the sim.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By setherick
1/18/2017 10:29 am
lellow2011 wrote:
Tecra031 wrote:
With the regular season almost completed for the 2030 season, I just wanted to give my thoughts. While I understand this is the beta league and the testing that goes on, I have not enjoyed the changes for the 2030 season as a whole. There have been too many, too quickly, and too many tweaks IMO.

Scores are lopsided and game planning is almost pointless since teams start getting play overuse penalties in the 2nd quarter of most games. Running is OP and has gotten worse, not better, from previous versions. There are 26 1000-yd rushers after 13 weeks and another 7 within 100 yards with 3 games left, there were only 16 for all of last season through 16 games. The idea of 33-35 RBs possibly having 1000 yard seasons is ridiculous, 26 is already was too much. I also think passing is actually worse. I see busted coverages a lot more frequently and WRs behind the secondary constantly.

I know some people love the endless tweaking and have the time to do it, but I am not one of those people. The changes this season have eliminated some of the pure fun and enjoyment of the game that was there previously and have over-complicated it IMO. I would much prefer a roll-back to the 2029 version and then tweak slowly. The game used to be tweaked slowly, giving time for adjustment, but many demanding owners have shifted that into overdrive.

Everyone seems to want a little something different out of this game. I am not calling anyone out for anything, just stating my personal opinion on the state of the game. I enjoyed 2029 and earlier versions significantly more.


Yeah it's been kind of crazy with stuff being tweaked so often, I also have not enjoyed watching my DE (100 in everything except strip ball for current ratings) become completely neutered by the current version of the sim.


I actually have the opposite opinion. I think this set of code changes will make the game much more enjoyable and stable. I think that blocking changes are actually pretty close to releasable. There are only two glaring issues that need to be resolved

(1) run blocking is still overpowered, but it's not as bad as it was at the beginning of the season
(2) pass blocking needs to be rebalanced. The interior of the line is not that good on pass blocking, but this could be a personnel issue for some teams. The tackles are dominating DEs, which suggests that attributes need to be rebalanced.

The rest of the tweaks are things that I would expect out of a test league. Here are the things that I think need more bake time:

1) over calling plays. Does this work? Too good? Not good enough? Not enough data?
2) linebacker reactions to plays.
3) zone coverage updates. This is getting really close.

In general, though, we absolutely SHOULD NOT revert the changes. I have a hard time watching games in leagues other than 1 right now. You have 100 SP DEs with no skill destroying OL and getting ridiculous sack numbers. You have QBs that cannot make decisions. It's really hard to build an offense that moves the ball consistently without resorting to exploits. Linebackers don't really do anything except get blocked every play unless they are blitzing QBs and then it's back to the 100 SP no skill all over again. It's difficult to run zone coverage schemes.

One of the things about playing in a test league is that we should expect tweaks. In fact, I would like tweaks every single week until something looks stable enough for a season long test, but I realize that JDB likes to sleep.
Last edited at 1/18/2017 12:32 pm

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By Black Adder
1/18/2017 2:36 pm
Quote Tecra "The changes this season have eliminated some of the pure fun and enjoyment of the game that was there previously and have over-complicated it IMO."

I agree 100% with this.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By WarEagle
1/18/2017 3:32 pm
That IS was this league is for after all.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By Ares
1/18/2017 5:08 pm
If you're in the test league complaining about too many changes happening, I don't even know where to begin in helping you, haha.

What's problematic with running in non-MFN1 is that it's exceptionally easy against bad teams, whilst being next to impossible against top tier teams. It's also very limited, with inside runs all but guaranteeing a net negative against elite defenses, and only a handful of outside runs standing any chance of a positive gain. Even those are mostly fixed at around a 3-5 YPC average at best, and can be game planned against.

The end result of this is that while league rushing averages are actually extremely high in terms of YPC and RYPG, most 'elite' teams don't even bother come playoffs, beyond only the weakest lip service.

The consensus seems to be that rushing is now OP, but I was wondering how folk felt about that in terms of the above issues being addressed. Specifically: 1) Is a rushing attack truly viable against 'elite' defenses, and if so 2) Are there more viable plays against said 'elite' defenses? And finally, as a corollary to all that, 3) Are 'bad' defenses just getting completely railroaded?

I'm concerned that any significant linear boosts to rushing will result most predominantly in a further punishment of 'bad' teams. Even in the 'legends' league, 75 I was able to run a pretty one dimensional rush attack that just straight up abused weak defenses, despite a pretty underwhelming offensive line. Naturally though it was entirely useless whenever I bumped up against any real competition whatsoever. But the overall results for the entire league's season were way higher than the NFL, thanks to everyone padding their stats on the chum.

Re: updates for 0.4.1

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
1/18/2017 8:24 pm
I'm unlikely to make any more updates in the current season to let it sit a little bit. There are still bugs that need to be fixed, and I'll try to have that done in time for the next preseason. I acknowledge that the changes have been somewhat fast and furious, but that is kind of the point of the bleeding beta league. These are all issues that I feel somewhat of an urgency to fix which is why I've pushed out so many items so quickly. That is kind of my vision for MFN-1 - which is why there is the disclaimer - but I do want to keep these kinds of seasons to a minimum. I do understand that it can be a source of frustration, though, and apologize for that.

Giving through the offseason will give me some time to run some test seasons to evaluate these updates further, but my tests don't reveal nearly the holes that having you all play with it here does.